PSA and BGS Rant

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implode
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PSA and BGS Rant

Post by implode » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:05 pm

UGGG, I don't think I'm sending anything to PSA again...either it was damaged in the mail or by PSA...even with $700 insurance, I don't think I can prove who did it. ##sigh## what an expensive lesson to learn. I'm so pissed. Guessing it dropped 2 or 3 grades. Insult to injury I spent $80 out of pocket to have this happen $40 shipping/insurance + $40 fee. Ridiculous.

I sent it exactly as PSA asked...penny sleeve, non toploader sleeve, wrapped in cardboard with rubber band and that was wrapped in bubble wrap. :(

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jamesbond
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Re: Mail Brag!

Post by jamesbond » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:49 pm

A friend just had the same issue with BGS, he have sent a pack fresh unlimited chaos orb and he received back a BGS 8.5 (7.5 surface) that is clearly damaged and is not his card.
This make me think about a question, when you send cards to BGS, do they always have ID numbers that are following each other?
I have only sent twice cards to BGS but the first time all ID numbers were very close one to each other.
In the second shipment (the one with the Chaos Orb) all the cards cames back with "nearly following" ID numbers, but the Chaos Orb have a totaly different number :s

Anyone else already had this kind of issue?


PS : All the other cards we have sent in this same batch were nicely graded ;)

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thulnanth
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by thulnanth » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:55 pm

Can't say about BGS, but I've sent to PSA a dozen times and every time my ID numbers wre consecutive - no gaps.

Take it easy,
Jared
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implode
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by implode » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:34 pm

thulnanth wrote:Can't say about BGS, but I've sent to PSA a dozen times and every time my ID numbers wre consecutive - no gaps.

Take it easy,
Jared
For the record, I was in NO way saying they pulled a switcheroo. Just relaying my frustration with the process. Feels I have no way to protect my investment in this process. I wish a company like PSA would offer their own insurance. To get grading insurance you simply send a high resolution scan of the card ahead of time, send it per their preffered instructions--then if it gets damaged in the mail or during grading they pay out the policy. That way no finger pointing back and fourth.

USPS burden of proof asks for the damaged mailer...something that usually gets discarded.

GlobalBoosterHunter
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:09 am

Sorry to hear about your issues with grading.

The same thing happens in the coin collecting world.

You send off a coin for grading and it comes back damaged or they say it has been tampered with or just plain disappears in transit one way or the other.

This is why I have never sent any coins or cards for slabbing, even with the best intentions mistakes can happen, plus I have to send from Australia so it just becomes too problematic and too expensive.

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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by CHaPuZaS » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:34 am

Overall, the thing that amazes me the most is that neither PSA nor BGS have decided to create a GOOD capsule for booster packs. I mean, everytime I came across a post of an ABU booster encapsulated that reads Mint... I see the pack almost creased, and I feel a mixture of crying and laughing in my face.

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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:12 pm

CHaPuZaS wrote:Overall, the thing that amazes me the most is that neither PSA nor BGS have decided to create a GOOD capsule for booster packs. I mean, everytime I came across a post of an ABU booster encapsulated that reads Mint... I see the pack almost creased, and I feel a mixture of crying and laughing in my face.
I know, same here, I wouldn't mind protecting my boosters and I am doing all sorts of things like sleeving them and putting them in albums etc. but if someone made a good hard case for them I would buy 3000 straight away!

I came up with a design a while back, just waiting for 3D printing to lead to 3D casting or 3D desktop injection molding or whatever and then I am going on kickstarter!

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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by dragsamou » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:03 am

CHaPuZaS wrote:Overall, the thing that amazes me the most is that neither PSA nor BGS have decided to create a GOOD capsule for booster packs. I mean, everytime I came across a post of an ABU booster encapsulated that reads Mint... I see the pack almost creased, and I feel a mixture of crying and laughing in my face.
I totally agree, this is by far the most unprofessional attitude, from Mint those boosters turn to Poor (same as a crease card).
GlobalBoosterHunter wrote: I came up with a design a while back, just waiting for 3D printing to lead to 3D casting or 3D desktop injection molding or whatever and then I am going on kickstarter!
Mark, any idea of when this will be available ?
Want/Have Lists.
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GlobalBoosterHunter
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:15 pm

No, I posted it a few years back looking for a bit of feedback on the design

Image

I was going to make them out of thermoformed plastic, basically vacuuformed clamshells. They would protect the boosters in storage and in the mail but obviously they would not be as secure as a slab so no good for authentication or grading as you could easily substitute boosters.

The bottom right of the picture is the hinge, the clamshell would be a bit loose for 6-card packs and a bit tight for the 16-card packs, it would need to be made oversize so the modern Japanese boosters would fit. Probably a different size would need to be made for demo or battle packs etc. The top section on the left is for the label but a sticker would do the job just as well. My skills in Sketchup are not so great so there would need to be a rigde all the way round to keep the clamshell shut, either that or use staples. Not a proper archival seal though.

There were a couple of other ideas such as having a hinge with a flat bottom so it could be free standing or having a hanger hole at the top for sales purposes etc. but as I didn't proceed they were never finalised.

I did get in contact with a company regarding getting them made locally, several hundred dollars to make the prototypes several hundred dollars to make the tools, another several hundred to make the die cutter a minimum order of several thousand (not a problem) but then posting them overseas would cost a fortune and the company would keep the tools and would have the right to produce and sell my design. It wasn't so much the money it would cost to make them and I really don't want to go into sales but it was the mucking about with a company who obviously wasn't interested in my business and most likely not helping me to make the best solution.

I found some companies in China could do the same thing for a fraction of the price but didn't investigate any further.

Now that hard shells are available I would much rather have them, a solid cassette that is smooth on the outside, seals perfectly, is lockable and would look good in the collection would be ideal. Protects the booster, stores easily, displays easily etc.

Also you could easily open a full box on video, slab them all with a unique identifier and then sell them as authentically unsearched. It would add a few dollars to the cost but how many people would buy an ABU era booster from eBay and actually believe that it hadn't been searched? If I want to sell my Revised boosters I will have to do it as a sealed box or for cheap because no one will believe I haven't searched them before putting them up for auction. Even the later era boosters which have all been box mapped would benefit. If I see a seller with 28 boosters for sale it is a pretty safe bet that they have cherry picked the best ones.

I am just waiting for the grading companies or ultrapro to make them for me and I will pay the extra money for the convenience!

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mystical_tutor
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:13 am

CHaPuZaS and Mark;
When I was at BGS a couple weeks ago (on my way back to Colorado from GenCon50) I asked them specifically about the booster pack cases, They had no answer and acted like it was not on a front burner.
Mark, have you shared your concept with them ? if not message me on FB and i will be happy to forward it to them with some encouragement.

Gary
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mystical_tutor
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:00 am

On the subject of sequential numbers I can offer some observations that may make things more confusing or lead to false conclusions.but here it is
of the 62 cards I just had graded by BGS there are only spurts of consecutive numbers. In trying to see if there was a pattern of some kind I found the following :
13 Alpha cards had consecutive numbers xxxxxxxx1-13
25 Alpha cards had non-consecutive numbers with several numbers skipped xxxxxxxx47-91
5 Arabian nights cards had consecutive numbers
4 UL cards were consective, 4 more were not.
36 Beta cards were not consecutive xxxxxxxx18-62
Some cards with the same names were consecutive and some were not.

Strictly FYI.
my guess is that the SN is determined by when it is graded and not because of an established set of rules about the card itself.
Be advised this is the first time I have dealt with any number of graded cards and don't even know how to use the pop report.
Gary
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GlobalBoosterHunter
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Re: PSA and BGS Rant

Post by GlobalBoosterHunter » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:25 am

mystical_tutor wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:13 am
CHaPuZaS and Mark;
When I was at BGS a couple weeks ago (on my way back to Colorado from GenCon50) I asked them specifically about the booster pack cases, They had no answer and acted like it was not on a front burner.
Mark, have you shared your concept with them ? if not message me on FB and i will be happy to forward it to them with some encouragement.

Gary
I saw your posts from Gencon, looks like you enjoyed yourself!

Every now and then I get a bee in my bonnet and start looking online for booster slabs to protect and display my boosters, just to see if anything is new on the market. I once wrote to Ultrapro but they never responded, I guess they get a lot of niche requests which probably won't make them a lot of money like the mainstream items.

The companies can not be unaware of the issue because in my searches I have come across threads on pokemon forums all making the same points as we do. I also collect trade cards and put aside a sealed booster from each set so the hobby is far more widespread than just a handfull of MtG collectors.

I think that now there are some identified crimp variants there is a better argument for having a booster which displays them.
Image
Image

Also with the variety of Japanese crimps
Image
Image
The case for a booster slab which displays these features is even stronger. The seals are no longer an afterthought in the booster design, they are now part of the changing styles of MtG packaging, and the seals are a large part of the sealed products appeal.

My original design was done in SketchUp,
Image
a program I really don't know how to use and was made before I had any idea of the variety of heights and widths and thicknesses of the myriad of boosters. It was also designed to be clamshell which could be opened and closed, provided some protection but was not particularly stiff. Mostly for storing boosters or for posting them, it needed to be lightweight and cheap.

No good for grading boosters but ideal for storing and protecting boosters that you may want to take out from time to time to check details, scan or open etc.

The real issue is making a universal booster case.

I want my Japanese boosters in the same size holder as my 3 card showdown boosters, without my Japanese booster getting squished and my Showdown booster rattling around.
I also want to have my
Image
Boosters in the same cases and they are very thick.

And it is not just the cases that will be needed.

I would be buying 2168 immediately to house my unique boosters, even the lowly Homelands and Fallen Empires need the same protections. Then you have the varieties which will also need protecting, then for each set that comes out I will need to order 55 cases at least. Plus any high value ones I have sitting in my duplicates box.

Then I need a box to store them in, preferably by set, something with a nice MtG logo or set logo would be great for the sets but plain for the extras would be good, something airtight or at least, well sealed. A well designed box would not be cheap but I would need a lot of them.

Some sort of internal organisers would be nice, by country.

Some coin albums have rigid pages for coin slabs, that would be nice, not that you could get many in an album. But if you were going to a trade show it would be nice to flip through.

I will contact you on facebook and mention it but I think if you let them know that people (or at least one person) is interested in displaying the varieties of seals and let them know how many different seals there are, then them might get off their backside and not just reuse a slab from their old product lines.

I am not interested in having anything graded or authenticated, just want the protection and no way am I sending them off for that. However if I did have the Beta and Summer boosters graded then I would want them to match my other slabs, just not able to be opened.

As to whether they need to be sealed shut or easy to open, it would be nice to have both, different cases for different needs.

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