BETA ALFA Mox Emerald - scammer?

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bertrand
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BETA ALFA Mox Emerald - scammer?

Post by bertrand » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:52 am

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 27602&rd=1

Is this fake or in really bad condition? I mean, the corners look terrible and the white spot in the lower left is almost cut off. The border and color also seem off.

From the same seller:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WDVW

It's in exactly the same border. These are definately fake.

I mean, look at the corners on this LOA..
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WDVW


Beware..

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l0qii
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Post by l0qii » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:59 pm

I don't trust these at all

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Post by hammr7 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:16 pm

While the borders of the different cards have minor differences, the white dot on the lower left looks suspect. It seems to be too far in to be edge wear, not far enough in to be the normal white spot. These cards might be rebacked from collector's edition. They could be real with inked borders, although that seems unlikely unless the corners had a lot of wear. They might be a wildwilliam copycat. While the seller has perfect feedback, I wouldn't bid on the basis of those scans. Better scans might help.

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Look at another one from this same seller.

Post by robertweinzetl » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:24 am

Check out the library of alexandria. It has Alpha corners too.... Hmmm maybe we should report this issue to the seller, and hope he's just a reseller without a clue.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WDVW

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mintcollector
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Post by mintcollector » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:37 pm

Without question these are fakes. The courners are not Alpha or Beta. They are hacked up by hand. The LOA is the dead ringer, but the other cards are easily discernrible as fakes. The seller also has Chain of Mphs/ up for sale, with no pic, but I'd be suspicious of that card as well.

EDIT: Well I thought over contacting the seller to let them know he is selling fakes and he needs to pull these auctions immediately, but then I thought about contacting the one bidder on the LOA. I changed my mind when I saw the bidder has private feedback with pretty excessive bad feedback. Private feedback is such BS. I think people should be able to see what other people have said about a person on eBay no matter what. So I said F-it, let the dirtbag get screwed.

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Post by Gryfalia » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:02 pm

I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border.

I would bet he owns none of the cards in question..

Gryfalia
Last edited by Gryfalia on Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by squt » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:12 pm

The guy has spotless feedback - maybe he doesn't know what he has?

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Post by mintcollector » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:32 pm

Gryfalia wrote:I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border.

I would bet he owns none of the cards in question..

Gryfalia
Are you crazy? These corners do not match Alpha corners for roundess. The arcs of the cuts are severely off. I would have not expected an answer like this from you. I am a little surprised at this blatant statement that shows real lack of knoweldge regarding card authenticity. Remind me to bring some fakes for you to buy from me next time I see you.

:evil:

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Post by AXIOS » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:00 pm

mintcollector wrote:
Gryfalia wrote:I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border.

I would bet he owns none of the cards in question..

Gryfalia
Are you crazy? These corners do not match Alpha corners for roundess. The arcs of the cuts are severely off. I would have not expected an answer like this from you. I am a little surprised at this blatant statement that shows real lack of knoweldge regarding card authenticity. Remind me to bring some fakes for you to buy from me next time I see you.

:evil:
got a new nemesis mike? ;)
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into all kind of fungusaurs and bog wraiths, especially foreign, misprinted

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Post by Gryfalia » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:57 am

mintcollector wrote:
Gryfalia wrote:I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border.

I would bet he owns none of the cards in question..

Gryfalia
Are you crazy? These corners do not match Alpha corners for roundess. The arcs of the cuts are severely off. I would have not expected an answer like this from you. I am a little surprised at this blatant statement that shows real lack of knoweldge regarding card authenticity. Remind me to bring some fakes for you to buy from me next time I see you.

:evil:
[Edited now that I have cooled off a bit...]

Did I say they matched the Alpha corners for roundness? Did I say they even looked right? I just said I don't think they are REAL cards at all. Did you notice that the 'Alpha' corners all look like they have the same wrongness? I think he digitally made a fake Alpha corner and attached them to scans of cards he had (from one of a million other sources).

Notice how the top right and bottom left of each corner seems to be, well, just plain mismatched to the rest?

All I said, and I stand by it, is that these seem to be digital modifications to scans, scans of cards that he probably doesn't even own (or else why would he put Alpha corners on a LoA?).

I'm still trying to find out how you think, even a little, that I said these cards had a snowball's chance in hell of being real?

Gryfalia

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Post by mintcollector » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:20 pm

Gryfalia wrote:
mintcollector wrote:
Gryfalia wrote:I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border.

I would bet he owns none of the cards in question..

Gryfalia
Are you crazy? These corners do not match Alpha corners for roundess. The arcs of the cuts are severely off. I would have not expected an answer like this from you. I am a little surprised at this blatant statement that shows real lack of knoweldge regarding card authenticity. Remind me to bring some fakes for you to buy from me next time I see you.

:evil:
[Edited now that I have cooled off a bit...]

Did I say they matched the Alpha corners for roundness? Did I say they even looked right? I just said I don't think they are REAL cards at all. Did you notice that the 'Alpha' corners all look like they have the same wrongness? I think he digitally made a fake Alpha corner and attached them to scans of cards he had (from one of a million other sources).

Notice how the top right and bottom left of each corner seems to be, well, just plain mismatched to the rest?

All I said, and I stand by it, is that these seem to be digital modifications to scans, scans of cards that he probably doesn't even own (or else why would he put Alpha corners on a LoA?).

I'm still trying to find out how you think, even a little, that I said these cards had a snowball's chance in hell of being real?

Gryfalia
well since you did not edit your previous post let me quote you then:
... all that he had was an alpha border
Not much more needs said. You clearly implied that an Alpha border was used when in fact the borders are not Alpha, so whether a pair of scissors was used, an exacto knife, or some sort of other die cut was used, these cards were manually made and do not have Alpha borders as you stated.
Your choice of words then was poor versus your lack of knowledge.

Now in response to comments made in your second post. You did not clearly state that the card corners matched in roundness, but you did state the cards were made with an Alpha border. The border of a card comprises of all the area on a card including the edges and corners. What else could you have meant by "he had used alpha borders"? Again, i reiterate, bad choice of words on your part. My comment on passing fakes of to you to sell was just a jibe at your comment you made on the borders.

Axios: No he is not my new Nemesis. I think people that might be considered senior should choose words they use carefully as they help build crediblity to this site as being full of what might be considered real "magicologists". I myself have made errrors in the past in posts, but have owned up to ones I have made. Anyone that would have flamed me would have been well within their rights to do so. If I made a mistake and looked foolish, then bring on the egging. I'll be the first to apologize for a bad posting.

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Post by Gryfalia » Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:18 pm

[Replaced with below post]
Last edited by Gryfalia on Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gryfalia » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:51 pm

For the record, if your interest was only to make sure that there was no confusion about the actual authenticity of the corners, then:

'These corners do not match Alpha corners for roundess. The arcs of the cuts are severely off.'

Would have been an appropriate answer, as well as, oh what the heck, adding the joke about selling me fake Alphas (yes, obviously it was a joke). That's not what pissed me off initially.

Your need to say:

' I am a little surprised at this blatant statement that shows real lack of knoweldge[sic] regarding card authenticity.'

was the unnecessary jibe that you could only have possibly decided to add in in an act of one-upmanship.

Note how I disagreed with you initially:

'I am pretty sure that they aren't manually hacked at all. They look like they are digitally modified, and all that he had was an alpha border. '

Now, skipping over the use of the phrase 'alpha border', it's neither insulting nor directly confrontational. It's merely a statement of my feelings on the issue, which happen to differ from your thoughts.

Heck, you might even had gotten a simple explanation of what I meant when I said alpha border. But you had to pull out the ego blaster, which of course got a similar response from me.

Strangely enough, this isn't a pissing contest of either sort. It could have simply been a disagreement.

And, just for S and Gs, I went home for lunch today and pulled out an Alpha and compared it to the one in the scan and, well, the arc isn't actually THAT far off, it's hard to tell when the card itself is larger than life. Part of it seems to be that the arc starts in the wrong spot. But, actually, looking at more of the Alphas in my ole binder, some of them start in different places. Now that I look at it, the 'top' set of corners on the LoA look exactly like the bottom 2 on this Keldon Warlord. I dunno. Either he (or his source) was mentally deficient (Alpha corner LoA anyone?) or he made the scans to make the cards look better, or he is selling from someone else. A perfect feedback of 311 is a scary thing to waste, so why tempt fate?

Which brought something to mind that I noticed yesterday. I've been sorting cards (as I've mentioned in the past) and was merging my previous sorted collection with some new ones I picked up. It's crazy the variations you find in Revised and 4th edition cards from various print runs. Some 4th cards are clear as a bell, some are just flat out fuzzy. Which means if I had a handful of just one of them (say, the fuzzy ones), they would look suspect (because, you know, people were mass faking 4th edition commons). Now I just need to find someone who wants 37 Revised COP: Greens..;-/

Gryfalia

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Post by mintcollector » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:47 pm

I still am in awe that you are still defending your statement! There are a few members here of whom I would have certain expectations from in regards to M:TG knowledge and card authenticity. Well you were] one of them. My comment was not meant to be a malicious attack, but just a statement of real awe in skills I had expected someone like you to have. I am sorry to have had such expectations in you. Once again, this is not meant to be mean, but a realistic statement. Another thing you may have recently just discovered is I am very forward and blunt on subjects. I don't sugar coat things. So please don't feel like I singled you out specifically as in some sort of revenge or look to do damage.

Your statement this was a feeling you had can also be taken as your opinion. Well if you are of the opinion, or feeling, that Alpha borders were used, then yes I am in shock and awe over your statement. Without even having to compare an Alpha as you did going home at lunch I could easily tell these as fakes. I don't want to drag others in on this as they choose to stay anonymous, but some did comment on your border statement. I am also shocked you can say they are not that far off. They are horribly so far off it is funny for you to say what you did to back up your earlier claim.

Feel free to get any last word in as I am done on the subject. Once again, sorry to have expected what I did from you.

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Post by Gryfalia » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:03 pm

Holy crap! As I said BEFORE I think they are digital modifications. Above I was merely comparing them to real, live Alpha cards and finding them, as much as you might want to pretend otherwise, that they aren't THAT far off. The scary part is that you seem to think that Alpha corners are all the same.

Since you seem clueless enough to miss it:

'I think he digitally made a fake Alpha corner and attached them to scans of cards he had (from one of a million other sources). '

Are you seriously being this much of an jackass or are you just hopelessly confused?

I can't tell you how much I am deeply hurt that I don't live up to your standards. I mean really, seriously crushed. And the phrase 'I am very forward and blunt on subjects' is, in fact, code for 'I'm an asshole'.

Gryfalia

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