Need help with Artist proofs.

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moxdiamd
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Need help with Artist proofs.

Post by moxdiamd » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:32 am

I figured I would ask the experts(proof collectors) here about some artist proofs I got. I collect Carnophage and found a guy with three artist proofs. He told me they had some wear on them because he played with them a few times. We made a deal for me to buy these and I received them. This is where things get strange. I took them out of the envelope and I thought right away that they felt diferent them other proofs I have(I have a bunch). After looking closer at the backs I noticed that if you angle them in the light, you can make out the words and the art from the back of a regular Magic card. if you look straight at it you cant see it, but if its at an angle you can. I would provide scans, but it doesnt show up. I looked at a bunch of my other proofs and none of them can you see the Magic back. Could these be fakes? Has anyone heard of people making fake proofs?(why they would do a common I dont know).

A couple "red flags" have gone up here. First, the guy played with the cards. Carnophage are not that hard to find that you would need to use proofs to play with. Second, these cards are NOT signed. I'm sure some people may not want to ge the proofs signed, but you gotta think 90%+ would get them signed.

Now many of the proofs that I have are newer and these are a few years old. Were you able to see a shadow of the Magic back on older proofs? Could these have the backs erased so they appear to be proofs? I tried this with a common card and got the effect I described with the magic back shadow. It would take a long time to do the whole back however.

I am hoping these are real cause I would love to have them for my collection. If anyone can offer some advice or has some older proofs to compare what I have described, please post here or email me.

Thanks!

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agzz
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Post by agzz » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:59 am

It dont supprice me that some arses are faking APs too. Everything for the easy buck.

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:05 pm

Hi.
I have basically the First A.P.to some of the latest in big quantities.I do have some that I believe was played,others with spilling,etc...
With None of them,as played or damaged as they are,I can see through,or have a Magic back Shadow.
On the other hand,I don't believe that this type of Fakes A.P.exist,I could understand for a Black Lotus A.P.but a Carnophage :shock:
Well,some Weirdos,may do so ;D But,I think that one of the main factor that will affect a proof so you can see through is some kind of liquid,water,etc...In your case,I was thinking at first about Normal Magic card,that once you peal the Foil,you have a White Front (These are known as Fake White Fillers),but since,it's the back that's white,I presume that's because they print the AP sheet with some Magic Backs on the Press before,and that some Ink,was still there(Charlie Brown Shadow Effect on the back).If any ideas come to my mind,I will edit :wink:
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moxdiamd
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Post by moxdiamd » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:46 pm

dragsamou wrote:Hi.
I have basically the First A.P.to some of the latest in big quantities.I do have some that I believe was played,others with spilling,etc...
With None of them,as played or damaged as they are,I can see through,or have a Magic back Shadow.
On the other hand,I don't believe that this type of Fakes A.P.exist,I could understand for a Black Lotus A.P.but a Carnophage :shock:
Well,some Weirdos,may do so ;D But,I think that one of the main factor that will affect a proof so you can see through is some kind of liquid,water,etc...In your case,I was thinking at first about Normal Magic card,that once you peal the Foil,you have a White Front (These are known as Fake White Fillers),but since,it's the back that's white,I presume that's because they print the AP sheet with some Magic Backs on the Press before,and that some Ink,was still there(Charlie Brown Shadow Effect on the back).If any ideas come to my mind,I will edit :wink:

So you think these are real and not fakes of any kind? You're right, I can't see that anyone would want to fake common artist proofs but these just seem, I don't know, not right when comparing them to the proofs I have.

Any other comments would be great. Thanks!

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Post by AXIOS » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:25 pm

fake,

and what exactly is the difference between a AP Carnophage and AP black lotus ???

never got that...

Both AP's are unplayable, and from both only exist 50 copies.
So an AP carnophage will be just as rare as an AP black lotus...........
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Post by Big Games Supply » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:53 am

AXIOS wrote:fake,

and what exactly is the difference between a AP Carnophage and AP black lotus ???

never got that...

Both AP's are unplayable, and from both only exist 50 copies.
So an AP carnophage will be just as rare as an AP black lotus...........

There are also just as many Black lotus as there are Ballance in CE.

Explain that while you are at it.
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moxdiamd
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Post by moxdiamd » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:05 am

This really is not a question about rarity. I am trying to find out if these proofs are possibly fakes. Hopefully some people here who collect proofs can compare some of their proofs from the same time as these carnophage proofs and see if they can see the same things I am with the "shadow" on the back. As of right now I am pretty convinced they are not real proofs. They just don't look right.

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dry cereal
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Post by dry cereal » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:23 am

What do you mean by "just dont look right." Do they feel rough? sticky? Too thin?

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:21 am

AXIOS wrote:fake,

and what exactly is the difference between a AP Carnophage and AP black lotus ???

never got that...

Both AP's are unplayable, and from both only exist 50 copies.
So an AP carnophage will be just as rare as an AP black lotus...........
Hi Nico.
Right you can't play both,but One is worth 1000$,the other 3/5$.still don't get it :shock:
Also,Beside the Beta/C.E A.P.Limited to 50,starting Antiquities,you could have 150 A.P. instead of 50,some A.P.have even a distribution of 350,just for your info :wink:
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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:24 am

moxdiamd wrote:This really is not a question about rarity. I am trying to find out if these proofs are possibly fakes. Hopefully some people here who collect proofs can compare some of their proofs from the same time as these carnophage proofs and see if they can see the same things I am with the "shadow" on the back. As of right now I am pretty convinced they are not real proofs. They just don't look right.
Hi.
If you can send one A.P. to me,I will check that with the others A.P.,I have from Exodus,also,as I'm on my way to order some A.P.from Pete Venters,I will ask him to send also a Carnophage for comparison :wink:
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moxdiamd
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Post by moxdiamd » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:04 pm

dragsamou wrote:
moxdiamd wrote:This really is not a question about rarity. I am trying to find out if these proofs are possibly fakes. Hopefully some people here who collect proofs can compare some of their proofs from the same time as these carnophage proofs and see if they can see the same things I am with the "shadow" on the back. As of right now I am pretty convinced they are not real proofs. They just don't look right.
Hi.
If you can send one A.P. to me,I will check that with the others A.P.,I have from Exodus,also,as I'm on my way to order some A.P.from Pete Venters,I will ask him to send also a Carnophage for comparison :wink:
If you were here in the US I would probably do that, but since you are in France it would just take too long for mailing back and forth. I talked to the guy I got these from. He got them from someone else and seems angry that they might not be real. I decided to buy just one of the "proofs". I will kick myself if I passed them up and the are real. Haven't been very lucking finding these. Thanks for your help. Maybe someday I will take you up on the offer. By the way.... since you are in France and one of the last two languages I need for my Carnophage collection in French(the other is italian) Do you by chance have any or can you get some? I could buy or trade for them(I'm not sure I have anything you may want, but you never know) :D

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