These kind Auctions I hate

[tah]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 15496&rd=1

Rebacked CE/IE cards... If they are made well enough there is allways someone who will buy them as real thing. And then they are in circulation forever :(

[sylvanstu]

does anyone know how this is done. not that i want to do this i'm just curious  ;D

[coolio]

does anyone know how this is done. not that i want to do this i'm just curious  ;D

<--- &nbsp;tell u this tho.. it's a pain

[johnstown713]

Its odd how he says it feels thinner.

[coolio]

Its odd how he says it feels thinner.

that depends how much u take off the layer and the kind of glue u use

[flatmatt]

This card has been used in many tournaments without issue.

That bothers me. &nbsp;The seller publically saying that they (or someone they know) have cheated in tournaments really bugs me.

[silver.paladin]

That bothers me.  The seller publically saying that they (or someone they know) have cheated in tournaments really bugs me.

Why should this be bothersome? &nbsp;Its not like a never before seen 'card' is being used.
One of the things that bothers me about the tournaments, is that it is only the 'richer' people that can really play, because the really good cards have a higher value to them, and as such, you may get a number of players (who may be really, really good) who cannot advance in a tournament at all, because they are unable to afford certain cards.
Having the 'fake' cards just levels a playing field. &nbsp;Having a fake card does not give any extra advantage or disadvantage to a player, unless they are marked somehow. &nbsp;If these fake cards are virtually the same thickness as a regular card, and if it is in a sleeve, then really, what is the problem? &nbsp;They are the same card, whether WOtC produced, or back-room created. &nbsp;Just so long as the card is not marked in some way to identify it.

Personally, I would have rather played against someone who created a virtually undetectable fake Goblin Naboo, instead of someone who has taken a Mountain and written Goblin Naboo on it.

[Celebrindor]

Thats a good point. &nbsp;Type 1 (and to some extent Extended) tournaments are dominated by those who can expensive cards, and I see no probelm with people making fake cards. &nbsp;

The problems with this auction are numerous though - with a set number of CE sets made, a CE lotus is as rare as a CE plains, and beta is scarce as well, so the creator of this card destroyed two cards - people who proxy using recent-set commons or lands are destroying cards that were printed by the millions, while CE and Beta are significantly more limited. &nbsp;Also, even though this seller admits that the cards are fake, I am sure there are many who do not, and as someone who buys expensive cards to collect, not to play in tournaments, that worries me. &nbsp;Fakes for tournaments are one things, but for a collection, someone could potentially pay a lot of money for something that is worthless to their collection.

[johnstown713]

Wow, I can't believe people are saying playing with fake cards in a non proxy tournament is ok. &nbsp;It is cheating and how is that ok.

[mintcollector]

Wow, I can't believe people are saying playing with fake cards in a non proxy tournament is ok. &nbsp;It is cheating and how is that ok.

Well don't worry, I am on your side on this one. &nbsp;I have proxies myself, and good ones at that, but there is no way I would play with fakes in a real tourney. &nbsp;That is a DQ with no questions asked in my book.

[hammr7]

From Van8888's post:

...the creator of this card destroyed two cards - people who proxy using recent-set commons or lands are destroying cards that were printed by the millions, while CE and Beta are significantly more limited.

I tend to doubt that a Beta card was used for the back. &nbsp;If so, how would we know?

I understand that this card could be thought of as a "great" proxy card. &nbsp;I also think that if constructed as claimed (with a CE front on a real magic back) it is probably a legal card. The whole problem with this card is that it is designed to pass as a real card (non-proxy) when it isn't one. &nbsp;But since intent is person-specific, and this seller is specifying that the card is, in effect, a proxy, then this auction comes closer to passing the smell test than any of the other recent "proxy" that I have seen.

[sylvanstu]

I like most people think using proxy's in a sanction tournament is cheating i myself have some great proxies but they are for casual play and comic con were you can use up to 9 proxies. comic con is a local type 1 tourney held by a store owner in Brookfield. ;D

[Celebrindor]

i never said i supported using proxies in a non-proxy tournament - all I said was (if they are allowed) I don't have a problem with using proxies in tournaments, and cards that look real seem better than written-on lands or commons. &nbsp;I did not (mean to) imply that using fake cards in non-proxy tournaments was ok - i just said that type 1 favors people who can afford expensive cards.

[sylvanstu]

i never said i supported using proxies in a non-proxy tournament - all I said was (if they are allowed) I don't have a problem with using proxies in tournaments, and cards that look real seem better than written-on lands or commons.  I did not (mean to) imply that using fake cards in non-proxy tournaments was ok - i just said that type 1 favors people who can afford expensive cards.

how true thats why i play only at comic con 9 proxies level the playing field and it is alot nicer to see a proxy of the card rather than a hand written proxie like you said it cost me a game once &nbsp;[smiley=laugh.gif] stupid me

[TerraFrost]

Wow, I can't believe people are saying playing with fake cards in a non proxy tournament is ok. &nbsp;It is cheating and how is that ok.

think about it this way. &nbsp;if you were to make all the rules from scratch, do you think that would be a good rule to include? &nbsp;ie. do you think it should be okay (as opposed to is it okay?)