I just won a beta MOX JET for $75 US!

[Celebrindor]

I agree.  As long as he never claims that the mox is included, it does not violate policy.  Same with the Blue Hurricane example.  If you clearly state that an RV hurricane is for sale, and do not claim that the picture represents the card, then it is up to the buyer to make the assumption that it is summer.  Jakolantern, you should have asked the question before you bid... :(

[ende73]

Where is this a violation of policy?  You cannot make such a statement without providing proof.  As far as images are concerned there are no rules or policy I can find in regards to this.  I did find a listing on image theft I was unaware of:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/v ... theft.html

There also rules regarding adult oriented listings and if you really wnat to stretch things, copyright infringement.  I spent quite a bit of time searching eBay for any reference for or against having an image not related to what is actually being sold.  Believe it or not, there is none.  Your Blue  Hurricane example trumping up a revised one is techinically legal by current policy.  Under handed imo, but legal nonetheless.  

silver.paladin is correct, Jakolanten will be required to pay, and as I said before can be held to pay by the methods listed.

If I am wrong, then please prove me so.  Just because you feel something is not right, does not make it a violation of policy.  I challenge you to show me your reference as to why this is a violation of policy.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but this is what I read at point number 5.1 of Ebay's User agreement:

"Listing and Selling.
5.1 Listing Description. You must be legally able to sell the item(s) you list for sale on the Site. You must describe your item and all terms of sale on the listing page of the Site. Your listings may only include text descriptions, graphics, pictures and other content relevant to the sale of that item. All listed items must be listed in an appropriate category. All items in multiple item listings must be identical. "


i.e. this listing could "only include text descriptions, graphics, pictures and other content relevant to the sale of that item".

Obviously this is subject to interpretations, but I would NOT consider depicting a PSA-Graded BETA Mox Jet strictly "relevant to the sale of 600+ random Magic cards"


On a side note, let me stress I am not here to "prove anybody wrong" (I would have expected the seller of that auctions to write something like that, while I can't understand why you're so aggressive - maybe you confused me with Dragsamou ???), but simply to express an opinion.

[ende73]

Maybe I should add:

"6.2 Restricted Activities. Your Information (or any items listed) and your activities on the Site shall not: (a) be false, inaccurate or misleading"


If you do not consider this listed item (i.e. its description, which includes the picture used) as "misleading", once again that's subject to interpretations.


I would consider it misleading myself, and so did our bidder here, and I would most certainly consider my Blue Hurricane auction "misleading" too.


If the high bidder fails to pay for this auction and Ebay is called to decide upon the possible subsequent non-paying bidder claim, it is just possible they might adhere to my interpretation rather than yours, judging the listing indeed "misleading".

[normalbrains]

i dont see why you thought the mox jet was included in the auction. this is just a run of the mill bullshit auction. be more careful. ebay is packed full with misleading auction and scams. i see youre new to ebay so i would just refuse to pay (unless $75 is chump change to you). tell the seller you thought the mox was included. you wont get a negative feedback because the seller will fear a retalitory feedback. if you do get a neg, just get a new ebay handle. you only have 3 feedback so youre not losing anything. chalk it up to experience, save $75, dont bid on dumb auctions, and have a nice day.

[mintcollector]

ende73:  First off I was not "attacking you", but simply challenging your claim.  Thank you for pointing out these items as a eBay serach on various words failed to show me this.  Crappy search engine they have.  I would like to revisit the auction listing though:

Hi. I've grown out of magic so I'm selling my collection. I have many great cards including many birds of paradise, mox's and lots and lots of angels as well as many beta cards and lots of Rares.

I'm selling here a random lot of 600+ magic cards from many sets with Lots of Rares and Uncommons from my collection. I am a pro at magic and I guarentee you will get value for money in this auction.

Happy Bidding.

 

His auction states he has a collection and what it contains.  Assuming this is all true, he can legally put the picture of the card up.  What gives him his out is using the words 'random lot'.    Using the word random means he just has to send you any 600 cards from his collection.  Like I said, this could be a split of crap versus good stuff.  Both piles are part of his collection, so simply taking 600 cards from his crap pile still qualifies as 600 cards being randomly pulled from his collection.  Think of this as a 600 card repack.  I am not trusting of any repack seller, so this is why I am cynical on this one.

[ende73]

ende73:  First off I was not "attacking you", but simply challenging your claim.  Thank you for pointing out these items as a eBay serach on various words failed to show me this.  Crappy search engine they have.  I would like to revisit the auction listing though:

 

His auction states he has a collection and what it contains.  Assuming this is all true, he can legally put the picture of the card up.  What gives him his out is using the words 'random lot'.    Using the word random means he just has to send you any 600 cards from his collection.  Like I said, this could be a split of crap versus good stuff.  Both piles are part of his collection, so simply taking 600 cards from his crap pile still qualifies as 600 cards being randomly pulled from his collection.  Think of this as a 600 card repack.  I am not trusting of any repack seller, so this is why I am cynical on this one.

Hi again Mintcollector, thanks for clearing up the fact you're not attacking me personally.
Unfortunately Forums are a wonderful discussion tool, but not seeing each other or the impossibility to hear the tones of each others' voices can be "misleading"  ;)

Once again, I perfectly understand your point, and I do agree that the text description in this item is totally accurate and fair.

However what I keep stressing is that the picture (which is certainly part of the listing) is "misleading", and Ebay does not allow to include any "misleading" elements in its auctions.

As I mentioned before I do not consider this absolutely incontrovertial but rather subject to possible interpretation.

However if I were called to decide I would definitely consider this listing "misleading" (in its graphical part) and therefore contrary to Ebay's policy, and that's where my (possibly wrong, of course) opinion comes from.

We're all trying to give some sort of answer to the Poster of this Topic, and I personally believe he would have some reasonable arguments to avoid paying and actually not incur in any Ebay sanctions as a consequence.... but then, i'm not Perry Mason nor a fine lawyer like Ralph Herold  ;D

[mintcollector]

ende73:  Well the original poster with a feedback of now 3 is no longer a registered user.  Curious as to what happened to cause this.  Even being a non paying bidder usually does not get you banned.  

Hmm.....

[ende73]

Oh well,

we entertained ourselves with some useful mental exercise then  ;D

[Jakolanten]

Okay, sorry everyone I took so long. I DID pay for the cards. He said they should arrive some time this week.

BUT- About 2 months ago I bought a some individual cards and the seller guy said he could combine shipping. But he only combined shipping for the first 3 cards or something so the last card had to be paid and shipped individually. I never paid for that final card and now I think thats why they closed my ebay thing down.

I thought "Oh well, I suppose I can live without ebay" but then later when I checked my emails I had a whole ton of messages that said "bid for item #blahblahblah has been cancelled" even on items that had already finished. Now Im really confused. Do I get the items that I had one and paid for?

This is turning into a real headache ??? ??? ???

[ende73]

Jakolanten, I find it hard to believe you were banned simply for not paying 1 extra item that should have been combined in shipping with others.

Ebay members are usually banned only after 3 (if I recall correctly) violations of that kind, and only after repeated warnings.

To help us understand your position, you must give us all relevant info.

[mintcollector]

What ende73 says is true.  Being banned by one such infraction seems very unlikely.  There has to be something else as the banning cause.

[Jakolanten]

I really dont know what went wrong there was only one warning. What else can you do to get kicked off?

[mintcollector]

I really dont know what went wrong there was only one warning. What else can you do to get kicked off?

Why don't you email eBay customer support and ask them why you are no longer registered.  Simply explain to them you are new and do not know what happened.

Then of course tell us.

[snarke]

mintcollector said "Some sellers tend to steal artwork from other auctions (which I wish they would make illegal)"

Actually, they already did. If I scan one of my boosters and post it, that image is mine, protected by U.S. Copyright Law. No, I do not need to attach any little (c) to it or anything.

Section 2(b) of Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Act
says  that any person who infringes a copyright “willfully . . . by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, of 1 or more copies, of 1 or more copyrighted worksâ€￾ is subject to the criminal penalties set forth in Title 18. For stealing eBay images, it'd be a misdemeanor.

The infringer does need to act “willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain.â€￾ No problem there.

Now: am I actually going to take the time to sue some jerkweed who steals my images? Nope. I am smart enough to not only know how to do it, but how to not have my stuff stolen in the first place. <grin> That's why, after the first couple of auctions, I redid all my auction artwork to include my name in semitransparent lettering across the object for sale.

It is illegal. It's just not very enforceable, until/unless people doing auctions get a bit smarter about protecting their images.

[silver.paladin]

Actually, they already did. If I scan one of my boosters and post it, that image is mine, protected by U.S. Copyright Law. No, I do not need to attach any little (c) to it or anything.

Section 2(b) of Title 17 of the U.S. Copyright Act
says  that any person who infringes a copyright “willfully . . . by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, of 1 or more copies, of 1 or more copyrighted worksâ€￾ is subject to the criminal penalties set forth in Title 18. For stealing eBay images, it'd be a misdemeanor.

Just a quick question - why is that image yours? &nbsp;Why is not property and rights of WotC/Hasbro, who created and sold the package to you? &nbsp;I would think you do not have any legal approach in scanning and saving an image of a copyright material, and declaring it yours.
In part, I state this because Ralph has said on more than one occasion that this whole site breaks copyright infringement because the scanned cards (whether by him or other members) actually belonged to WotC. &nbsp;Not that Hasbro would do anything, since Ralph is not making or attempting to make, any funds or other business revenue in using these scans.

So how can you declare that the images you scan are protected by the US Copyright Act??