I was testing you...

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:41 am

Plastered_Dragon wrote:People don't like to be fooled. Even if it is for their own good. I understand the hostility this "test" has evoked. What Raphael/Dragsamou need to keep in mind is that they DO have excellent reputations and therefore people trust them.

So the test, per se, is not really all that accurate. Yes if someone you have grown to trust decides to fool you, they're probably going to pull it off.

A better test would have been to set up an alternate account under a new username to offer the card. This would have reflected a more accurate representation of the gullibility of myself and others. I assumed the cards were legit because of who was posting about them. Not because I have some great knowledge of misprints.
Hi Chuck.
I can understand eventually hostility from People that have Offered the money(Even if those are more than Happy with that issue),
I don't from the others that are not even concerned.
A Better Test with a "Jon Doe",will not have provided this result.Now is the interesting part:
I assumed the cards were legit because of who was posting about them. Not because I have some great knowledge of misprints
Well,I thought the same thing when,I bought my Albinos from a Very reputable seller....Result is a Faded Card ;-)
If I will have ever traded or sold that card,I will have done it without knowledge.The point of Trust is one thing with a Human but with a Card,it's another story.Now,finding authenticity for most of the Misprints is easy but Few sections need a Huge Warning:Foils,Albinos,Miscolored...
At least,from Now,Members of this Forum will know how to make the difference(I will post later the results of my scanning....Great Results :-) )
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

hammr7
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Post by hammr7 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:02 pm

I don't collect crimps, miscolored, misprinted, or miscut cards. I should probably included most fillers as well (I don't collect them either). After spending more than a decade in the printing industry, I guess I am much too aware of how many of these are actually produced at Carta Mundi and how easily many of these can be couterfeited. In fact if you look back to one of the earlier Duelists (I think it was Duelist - somewhere around issue 8) an article discusses a Carta Mundi tour, and shows a picture of enormous amounts of scrapped Magic cards awaiting destruction.

The main reason these types of cards wouldn't be counterfeited is that most aren't highly valued. That makes them a fun thing to collect for some, like crimps for the Bens. As long as the prices are relatively low (at or below the price of the card or uncut sheets they could originate from) most error-based oddities will be real since there is no financial incentive. Should any of these error classes become valuable all bets are off. If albino rares are worth 100 times the base card's value, then the market will eventually be flooded with them. At that price someone will figure out how to selectively fade even the blue or black layers.

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nano
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Post by nano » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:08 pm

hammr7 wrote:The main reason these types of cards wouldn't be counterfeited is that most aren't highly valued. That makes them a fun thing to collect for some, like crimps for the Bens. As long as the prices are relatively low (at or below the price of the card or uncut sheets they could originate from) most error-based oddities will be real since there is no financial incentive. Should any of these error classes become valuable all bets are off. If albino rares are worth 100 times the base card's value, then the market will eventually be flooded with them. At that price someone will figure out how to selectively fade even the blue or black layers.
I almost agrees to you. However, a complete albino often fetch high prices because of its nice looks and rarity. I rarely found some complete albinos though I had been collecting the error cards for seven years. Mere Miscolors never fetches high prices too much because they are not better-looking.
If someone is able to make really perfect albinos, He will get much money.
Last edited by nano on Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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squt
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Post by squt » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:43 pm

As some of you may know, I have a little experience with misprints :-)

I never, ever buy 'albino' cards, simply because they are so easily faked. Take any red card printed before, oh, say, "Tempest", and set it on the dash of a car that is parked outside. Check it out after 2 weeks - it's going to look a lot different.

Sorry Mr C - there is a very good chance your albinos were not pulled from a pack that way. I'm not sure if there's a sure-fire way to be able to tell 100% that an albino is a true misprint unless you pull it from the pack yourself.

Squt

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nano
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Post by nano » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:57 am

Hello Squt. I know your cool site very well. Your site and pretty baby are famous among Japanese collectors.
I appreciate your site very well. However, I am afraid that I cannot agree to your opinion.

First of all, it is difficult to make the albino by the sun fading. Certainly, colors fade gradually if card is put under strong sunlight. However, the quality of paper is deteriorated at the same time and it grows yellowish. Moreover, it might be difficult to fade all the colors except the black completely. It only will become a dirty color card. Please put it on the dash of a car that is parked outside for two months or more if you think that it becomes albino under strong sunlight. You will surely get a spoiled card.

Secondly, I think that it is considerably difficult to make a "complete" albino. Because black or blue layer is strong in light and the chemical change as Hummer7 said, the blue will remain like Raphael's card. I was confused by the Raphael because blue was hardly used for fork. If a very clever work is done to the card for which blue is not originally used, a monochrome print could be able to be made. Therefore, I think that we should especially notice the albino of the card from which blue is not originally used for the picture.

Thirdly, the chemical reaction will be able to make the Miscolor and albino theoretically.
However, it may be actually difficult to make a perfect albino from the chemical change. I have the interesting fake card below.

http://www.nextftp.com/nano/others/blankfoil.html

This looks genuine. However, if the back is seen, the edge becomes faded in some places. Even if the chemical is used only for the surface, some colors on the back may be made to fade, too.

If the person who is very well versed in the print makes good use of various means, he could be able to make a complete albino. However, albino hardly appears on the market though it often has dealings by high price. In addition, Albino almost always appears as a "common card" of a specific set like the fourth edition or ice age or others, even if the albino is seen by chance. The fake seems not to have appeared on the market up to now when thinking about these. We should especially note Albinos of the rare cards in the old sets.

Anyway, card collection is the self-satisfactory. I think it is the best if each person can enjoy in one’s own way.
Last edited by nano on Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TerraFrost
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Post by TerraFrost » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:49 am

*is reminded of this thread*

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