Are accounts getting approved anymore?

[hammr7]

Patrick,

It has been longer than months. If you were to go back through the posts, you would see that allowing interested people to join the forum has been a problem for many years. The difference is that this site used to be well worth the two or three day wait for a new account to be personally approved.

Now, the wait can be many months and repeated requests. This is sad, since there are ways to minimize bots and spammers from becoming members, and to efficiently remove them if they do join.

And membership is only one component of a vibrant site. Since the "information" part of the site updates can't even keep up with current additions, there is little hope of expansion into other areas of rarities.

As it stands, I fear that many advanced collectors will become Ents, lost in slumber among the forests of Magic players. Many of the collectors I knew have stopped collecting, because it has just become too hard to find the rarities they are interested in. Or they have collected all the "basics", and can't find interesting new items to collect.

There must be newer collectors out there to replace those who stop, but I can't seem to find them any more. They aren't on sites like MOTL. Based on reputation, many no longer even try to come here.

[pp]

I understand your points Hank and I agree, we spoke about this problem several times. It's a sad situation, but as I said, our (mods) hands are bound, Alexis is the boss.

The only thing I can do is to ask somebody from France to call him again :-/

As you said, this is not the first time, this is a permantent problem now. So maybe, in the name of the community, we should find another solution...

But this should not be the beginning of a revolution ;-)

[l0qii]

That's exactly why we need at least a couple other moderators who can do this. I'm not sure I would be the best choice since my military obligations will periodically keep me away for weeks, but almost everyone that has posted recently I would trust to activate accounts.

Just a point of clarification. We don't necessarily need new/more moderators. The current moderators (pickle, pp and myself) don't have privileges to approve account or weed out bots. This is done by Alexis alone.

[gzeiger]

Nobody here is complaining. Alexis has done as much for Magic as anybody. In my mind he's right up there with Bob Flaminio, Ben Bleiweiss andZvi Mowshowitz in his contribution to holding my interest in this game. We're just concerned that the legacy of that work is not being carried forward as well as it might be, especially when it feels so easy to do.

I don't know any of the details of the situation, but it seems like it would be a good idea when he gets back to set things up so that there are a couple people with access so that when time or interest inevitably wane, however temporarily, someone can fill in for the interim.

[magic-belgium]

In my opinion, there are several problems that lead to the current loss of interest here.

Alexis made a clear choice, and honestly, nothing can/should go against this. Either you like it or leave it. If you leave it and still want to gather a community, you should bring your own solutions. That being said, Alexis could notice that no one could offer an alternative to the Librarities in years, which is also the reason why his position does not change. Once again, that is his choice, and he has every right to think the way he does.

There are alternative websites currently being built (one for the foreign promos for instance) and wikis too. I was shown one of them lately but can't remember the link. It is pretty neat. There may be a forum, I have to check that more thoroughly.

In more than 15 years of existence, Internet has evolved tremendously, and no owner/webmaster/whoever it is, could go against the trend. Users have always moved to the better...

Moreover, WotC focused all their efforts on the new players in the last 3 years. They don't care whatsoever about the collectors. So the community will shrink naturally.

Last but not least, talking about collectors who give up, there is a big problem between some collectors, some investors (that call themselves collectors) and some sellers. Honestly, considering the behaviour of some (re)sellers (some being members here and some on Ebay - their greed is utterly disgusting), it is no surprise that some collectors give up.

You can not think yourself as a member of the community while you make outrageous profits on the back of other collectors (or lie to them, bluff and so on) or finance your collection speculating on the products you "so-called" collect. That is no deontology. And there should also be a code of conduct regarding this situation too.

My 2 cts.

[mystical_tutor]

Humm, come to think of it, now that there is a Euro you guys on that side of the pond can throw in 2 cents.....

Gary

[magic-belgium]

We used to have cents in some countries too before

[mystical_tutor]

Yes, we used to have sense in the US too, now all we have is politicians.

Gary

[magic-belgium]

Bien dit Gary !

That is not exclusive to the US if that may bring you some relief...

[hammr7]

Your post misses a few important points.

Any web forum becomes a community. You get comfortable with the members. For world-wide collectors of obscure Magic-related items, this comfort is an important component. Forum members are fellow collectors, a network of contacts for items and for information. I have purchased items for forum members who could not buy in the USA. Forum members in Europe and in Asia have done the same for me. In some cases this resulted in trusting members for commitments of hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You wouldn't find this kind of interaction on most other sites.

In addition to community, there is the element of inertia towards a common goal. When checking out oddities and anecdotal evidence about obscure items, the synergy of a large group of collectors will almost always trump the abilities of a single collector.

To answer your "greed" concerns, A community should identify objects of interest, not delve into price control. I have never had a problem with pricing. If an Ebay sale is successful, then at least one person thought an asking price was okay. Despite market forces, I have received a number of great deals from this site. And I have provided members below market values in return.

Because of our shared history, and our desire to help, most of us would gladly endure some difficulties rather than abandon this site. We are not trying to replace Magic Librarities, which is why there are no "offered alternatives". We would like to help with the effort, but we are allowed no way to do so.

Alexis did a lot of work when he first inherited the site. Much of that work, however, was to transfer the original content into the format he wanted. When he is around, Alexis updates many of the ongoing (meaning current) lists, from tip cards to promos to which languages products are available in. And this is fine. For everything that has been done by Alexis we are grateful.

But that does not mean we should not question why this site is stagnating. Or why Alexis is so protective of the site that he will let it die unless he can personally do everything. And because Alexis has focused on other aspects of his life, that is the current issue.



My personal problem these days is even finding someone who has items I desire. Once I know something is available, I can accept the price, negotiate something more palatable (including trades), or reject the price. As the number of old rarities collectors on this site has declined, so to has my exposure to items of interest to me.

Unfortunately, little or none of what Alexis has done with the site is of benefit to me. I am a "breadth" collector of all Magic-related items from the first 10 years. And there were originally plans (when I worked with Ralph Herold) to expand coverage of this earlier time, since so many of the older items are true "rarities". If this site is the best at pre-2000 information, how many additional pre-2000 categories have been added or updated in the last 4 years? I have updated information on many of the listed categories, but haven't received an e-mail response from Alexis in ages.

I mention these older items (such as promotional items and awards) because this site, and specifically this forum, used to be the best place in the world to obtain both information and sources for such items. This is no longer the case.

I could see this as simply a personal issue if this site explored and kept up with other, perhaps newer, aspects of Magic. That seemed to be where Alexis was going. But how many areas on the data side have been updated since ~2010. Magic set listings are still at 2008 or earlier (the last core set is 8th Edition). Most rarities categories aren't anywhere near 2012. Has modern Magic gotten this boring, so that nothing newer is worth reporting? Or is this site falling behind on nearly everything?

Let me emphasize that I am not unthankful for the work Alexis has done. Nor am I begrudging the fact that his life has become difficult. But I am pointing out that his unwillingness to make any kind of contingency plan for this site, while he is dealing with his issues, is harming the site, and the community it has fostered.

[gzeiger]

That was well said. If there is any way we can help, we would do it.

[magic-belgium]

I agree with you for some points.

Alexis spent a lot of time in this website, but it helped him trading a lot for his own collection (he claims publically on other websites that he dealt thousands of transactions on librarities). So it was, like most of us, a good way of improving his own collection.

When I mentioned about (re)sellers here, I should have been more specific.

Some people here claim they are collectors and are part of the community but they make a business (amounts are significant) and apply margins that are outrageous. They even specifically buy items to resell them here, sometimes doubling or tripling the original price and act as "friends".

Some buy things specifically to speculate later...

Some "trade" with the intention of speculating later (sometimes immediately).

Some members are considered here as cows people can milk indefinitely. And many people know that the collectors here have money like no other worldwide...

This is disgusting. You either are a seller or a business or a collector being part of a community. Hypocrisy is not good in the long term.

Those people use the "secrecy" here to act this way. Because of course, considering the amounts involved, there should be a secret.

IMHO, all of this does not help a community to grow.

[mystical_tutor]

Folks;

This subject is near and dear to my heart. The levity above was to provide a little "comic relief" in a deep seriously presonal subject.

IMHO hammr and magic your both right but from different perspectives.

Why do people collect? What is the difference between collectors/accumulators/speculators/profiteers? Unless we understand those differences we will not understand our community or the potential community.

All of the above are healthy and contribute to the well being of a community. It takes all to fuel the system--each in their own way.

I agree with hammr that what is really most desireable in the world is a site that historically covers the birth and growth of our hobby in as many aspects of that history as people are interested in. The more detailed, the better.

That will only happen when hammr makes that website.

I do not agree with Alexis or magic completely that I need to be "protected" from all the bad guys out there. I would much rather have this site open and progressive (as I see some sites) than dead.

Bottom Line: Babe! There ain't nothing happening here and unless someone starts up the band, I'm moving on. I'll drop back around to see if anything is happening and I'll continue to work on posting my collection but I'd like to find a home that I can invite new people to.

Gary

[hammr7]

Folks;

I agree with hammr that what is really most desireable in the world is a site that historically covers the birth and growth of our hobby in as many aspects of that history as people are interested in. The more detailed, the better.

That will only happen when hammr makes that website.

Bottom Line: Babe! There ain't nothing happening here and unless someone starts up the band, I'm moving on. I'll drop back around to see if anything is happening and I'll continue to work on posting my collection but I'd like to find a home that I can invite new people to.

Gary

The sad part of this statement is that I could have been in a position to obtain this site. When I was the only moderator for Ralph, it became apparent that Ralph was looking for a successor.

At the time I was proposing (and designing) both site extensions to pre-2000 Magic-related items, and a searchable database to replace - and incorporate - what is now the "archive". These items were not high among Ralph's to-do list, in part because the database would force a site upgrade, and in part because Ralph had not been exposed to many of these early promotional items. And probably more importantly, Ralph was planning a proper exit strategy.

After doing the background cost analysis on on all the variations of Ralph's ill-fated custom artwork project, I could have played along and made promises to secure this site as Ralph left to immerse himself in finding his place within the German legal profession. I had gone so far as to secure web addresses, since Ralph did not want the site to maintain the same web address after he turned over control (Alexis did the same, which is why we have "Librarities")

But at that moment in time life got in the way for me. I was forced into handling the healthcare and financial affairs for a number of ailing, aging relatives (I come from a large family and have a background in Finance), all of who lived distant from me. And at the same time I had personal problems, which resulted in (among other things) seven operations on my hands.

With minimal free time, and with virtually no ability to type, I decided that someone other than me, someone with energy I couldn't muster at the time, should take over. I would have loved to steer the site in the direction of my collecting. But I felt that my running the site would have been a dis-service to the community, since I was physically unable to commit anywhere near the required effort. At the time I had no idea how long my recuperation would take. But I knew that even six months was too long. As such, I welcomed Alexis' energy when he first became involved, and felt I had made the correct choice. Today I no longer feel that way.

It was the realization by Bob Flaminio that he could no longer keep the site vibrant that drove him to turn it over to Ralph. It was Ralph's decision that he could no longer provide the necessary level of support that drove him to turn it over to Alexis. In each case the individual put the health of the site and the community above personal ego.

At some point Alexis will read this post. He needs to decide what his legacy will be. He took on a huge obligation when he took on this site. That obligation remains unfulfilled.

[dragsamou]

Hi Members
Will go through all the posts later. Regarding activation, where the Members that want to join, send the E-Mail to ???? I just receive an E-Mail from Jess, as he changes E-Mail adress, and need to have his account activated again, this is done within 48 hours for any members, that want to join.
So for activation send to dragsamou@noos.fr