Non common Error and Misprint Index

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pickle.69
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Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by pickle.69 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:47 pm

I have talked to a few members now and recognized that some (especialy new) Members miss a look up option or board for non standard erros cards such as Crimps, Miscuts, Coloring Problems ...... (maybe I am wrong but i still like the idea)

I think it would be great if we could somehow catalogize and maybe also explain how such an error occured.
It would be to complex to cover every single version of for example miscuts but it would be nice to lets say have something like

Miscut card
-> 1-2 pics of very miscuted card (keiths 4 cards showing card)
-> explenation about the cutting process and devices (Alpha had knives 1, Beta 2, ICE 3 )
-> where mistakes can be made (paper was pulled in wrong, knives where wrong, card was printed wrong due to a prior mistake...)

we would need to find categories and apropriate pics and people that have the knowhow of the production process and are willing to explain it.


think that is a good idea?
I do [smiley=approve.gif] and would like to participate in the Info gathering  
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by Stefke » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:11 pm

I think that's a great idea indeed!
I'd love to see some more info about how particular errors could possibly occur.
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by ende73 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:57 pm

I like this idea very much !

I am lacking time and organizational abilities to make suggestions about how exactly to do this, but I promise to contribute scans if the project gets through.
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by Ralph Herold » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:01 am

I have thought about adding enhanced misprint coverage almost since I took over the website. The reason why I have not approached this matter yet is because

1. I am lacking a convincable categorization of these cards on par with the rest of this website (I believe I can create one, but I will need to do extensive research)

2. I am personally not collecing this type of item and am therefore lacking first-person knowledge unlike for most of the other items on this website

3. the whole process is very time-intense, and I have favored other projects so far

You are welcome to gather information of course - and you already have in a dozen of different threads spread all over this forum - but I doubt I will start to work on this project this year. There are enough small and medium upgrades to do for Magic Rarities, Magic Card Sets needs to be taken to the next level, and I am longing to do a website about Magic literature for about four years.

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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by TerraFrost » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:12 am

In the interim, someone could make a "survey of misprints" page that has a theme similar to this sites theme.  at that point, ralph could, with permission, then incorperate that site into this one, maybe...
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by silver.paladin » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:20 am

I do not see any mention of this yet here, but in regards to these misprint cards - has any consideration been given in regards to talking to Squt?
Seeing as how he already has a fairly comprehensive list of standard misprint errors in various languages, and has a website dedicated to this - perhaps it is possible to work with him and design exactly what you are wanting with him.
My opinions on misprints has been mentioned numerous times before, but if there is a serious interest, my thought at this time is that Squt should be involved, at least to some kind of degree.
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by TerraFrost » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:24 am

standard misprints and non-standard ones (ie. crimps and miscuts) are two very different beasts.  squts site focuses on std. misprints and aren't what i would consider to be rarities.  in contrast, non-standard ones - like albino cards, blue bordered ice age, etc - are what i'd consider to be rarities.  squt's site has some info. on these (and for now is probably the best reference), but as far as references go, it isn't all that comprehensive.  not nearly as much so as squt's coverage of standard misprints is and as this websites coverage of promos is.
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by silver.paladin » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:54 am

standard misprints and non-standard ones (ie. crimps and miscuts) are two very different beasts.  squts site focuses on std. misprints and aren't what i would consider to be rarities.  in contrast, non-standard ones - like albino cards, blue bordered ice age, etc - are what i'd consider to be rarities.  squt's site has some info. on these (and for now is probably the best reference), but as far as references go, it isn't all that comprehensive.  not nearly as much so as squt's coverage of standard misprints is and as this websites coverage of promos is.
I would disagree in some ways with your comments here.  What Squt has on his website is a fairly detailed listing of standard misprints.  This other type of misprint you are talking about here, I do not think they could be called rarities whatsoever.  They are unique yes, but a rarity, no.  And the only reason this particular brand of misprints are unique, is because they are faulty cards.  If Wizards had a proper quality control, the vast majority of these 'unique' misprints would not exist, as they would be destroyed.  However, one of 2 possibilities I see is happening here.  Either (a), Wizards/[the printers] has a poor QC program happening, or (b) Wizards knows about these various misprint cards, and does not care because of (i) the cost involved in having a tighter QC program or (ii) they feel these cards are for a game playing environment, and these misprint cards are not going to damage the game nor would there be enough complaints - so the cards, as misprinted/damaged that they are, are still of sufficent use to play with, so they are left in circulation.

Now, back to Squt's misprints - I would say these are more of a standard type misprint.  Perhaps a print run or two were done with the error, and then corrected in future print runs - and the error print runs were put into circulation.  Perhaps these earlier error-type print runs had the errors noticed, and it was just determined on a cost/profit basis, that it was not worth taking the time to find the error cards or destroying that particular print run - it could just be corrected later.

What is being discussed in this thread, is basically a list of non-standard misprints.  Misprints that happened due to a cutting machine error, or color saturation, or such.  These are "unique" type cards, as these cards were created with the errors completely by accident (and again, with a proper QC program, should have been destroyed).  Very few of these cards will ever be duplicated exactly (therefore making them unique) because it was a machine error of one type or another, at one time or another, that has created these errors.

I really do not think a site dedicated to this brand of "unique" cards is all that good of an idea.  Mainly because, it will be impossible to complete.  There are always new errors being created, and all the errors will never be found.  Many errors have been destroyed.  I personally have destroyed dozens, if not hundreds and thousands of these types of cards - both in store and those of my own personal possession.  I cannot say for certain that I ever recall seeing 2 identical error cards like these  (and before there are those that wish to refute what I am saying, one quick example - The Dark - there was a complete set of print runs with them printing the characters to the left side - so yes, lots of duplicates of these, but then again, this is a Standard misprint, not a Unique misprint as discussed here).

I can understand the want and desire to create a website (with pics of course) of all the various misprints a person has, therefore they can make these cards available to be shown to the general public.  This kind of venture, will be never-ending - not because of the vast number of misprints, but because of the poor QC, every print run has the potential of creating new error cards - that means printing new sets, reprinting old sets - what have you, every time the printers are used, new errors are bound to crop up.

Personally, I do not see any place on the Magic Library for a collection of these "unique" misprints, though a write-up explaining them might perhaps be viable to do. &nbsp;If a "unique" misprint website were to be created, it should be its own website completely. &nbsp;These misprints are not rarities whatsoever, just errors. &nbsp;And errors normally should be fixed. &nbsp; <rrripppppp> &nbsp; [smiley=smartass.gif]
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by TerraFrost » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:53 am

I really do not think a site dedicated to this brand of "unique" cards is all that good of an idea. &nbsp;Mainly because, it will be impossible to complete. &nbsp;There are always new errors being created, and all the errors will never be found. &nbsp;Many errors have been destroyed.
pickle.69 and myself aren't suggesting that the proposed non-standard misprint section attempt to list every single non-standard misprint ever. &nbsp;Rather, we're suggesting that this misprint site should show the most extraordinary misprints of each kind and provide a basic explanation of them. &nbsp;This is the reason I called it a "Survey of Misprints".

As an example of what I'm envisioning for the misprint site... &nbsp;consider this page:

http://www.coinfacts.com/error_coins/error_coins.htm

It enumerates on non-standard coin errors. &nbsp;As you're so quick to point out with MTG cards, there are an infinite number of possible coin errors. &nbsp;However, the above website is hardly infinite in size. &nbsp;Click on the Broadstrikes picture. &nbsp;You'll see a picture of one coin which is a far far cry from showing every broadstrike ever minted.

Check out the Off Centers. &nbsp;Again, one coin. &nbsp;And it's not your average off center, either - it's an extraordinary off center.

I could go on with examples from that site, but I trust the point has been made - that a non-standard missprint site need only discuss all the main types of non-standard missprints (ie. crimps, blue bordered, harry potter backed, etc) - not every specimen that ea. type has to offer.

As for whether or not non-standard errors are really rarities... &nbsp;whatever you may think a rariety to be, I do not believe that you can deny the fact that many of this sites patrons are interested in them just as much so as they are interested in promos. &nbsp;Consider the Harry Potter backed MTG cards. &nbsp;There was enough interest in those, on this board, so as to inspire the pooling together of $13,000 dollars in what would be a failed attempt to buy them.

Interest in non-standard misprints is undeniable.

Finally, if non-standard misprints aren't rarities, then what exactly do you consider to be a rariety? &nbsp;I, personally, don't consider third party tokens to be rarities (rather, I consider them to be, for the most part, cheap and often failed marketing attempts).
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by Ralph Herold » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:06 pm

While I perfectly understand silver.paladin's point of view (for more or less the same reasons I do not collect these cards), the purpose of this website is to address the needs of the community. The numerous threads about misprints have shown for a long time already that misprints are accepted by many as a legitimate subcategory of the group non-standard Magic cards this website is based upon. Given that the inclusion is desired or at least welcome by many people and does not interfere with the site design, there is little reason not to do it. Regarding the method of coverage, a categorization by different misprint types in addition with an example image should be the best way. TerraFrost showed a good example of such an approach.

Note: With each iteration of the discussion about what qualifies as a Rarity, it becomes more obvious that the name Magic Rarities needs to be replaced. It just causes confusion and hardly reflects what really is the scope of the webpage. I have been reluctant so far to cut this rope to the past, given the history about the name, but the involved disadvantage slowly outweighs the historical aspect.

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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by mahdishain » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:55 pm

ralph

i understand your reluctance to abandon the magic rarities name. &nbsp;it is how i identify with this site. perhaps
a subtile such as magic rarities and collectibles would help merge tradition with reality. the collectibles tag is just off the top of my head. fill in your own subtitle.
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by Big Games Supply » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:25 pm

Ralph,

I believe it should be a 4th section off of the main page. &nbsp;Perhaps, "Magic Oddities" or "Magic Errors". &nbsp;Any thoughts? &nbsp;I would rather not see it cluttering the promo section.

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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by victorcamp » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:04 am

I see no reason to abandon the name Magic Rarities. It defines the site to the community and has a long and respected history. As an additional wing off of the main library page, however, Oddities, Errors, Collectibles, or even Magic Mishaps could provide depth to the overall endeavor.

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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by dragsamou » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:12 pm

I see no reason to abandon the name Magic Rarities. It defines the site to the community and has a long and respected history. As an additional wing off of the main library page, however, Oddities, Errors, Collectibles, or even Magic Mishaps could provide depth to the overall endeavor.
Hi Victor  :)
I totally agree with you.While,I collect Misprints,I do not consider them at all like Rarities but just Errors.
Also,Misprints can be easily done by any members,I have seen that beautiful Albino Card,it will cost probably
a Fortune on Ebay,but,it's just a 3 Monthes exposure to direct light  ;),so there's no way,I can call an Albino Card a Rarities  ;).The day,this Website will be focused on
Cards with Blue,Grey,Orange Magic Backs,etc...The rarities will be gone and it will be time for Commons Errors  ;D
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Re: Non common Error and Misprint Index

Post by TerraFrost » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:46 pm

Misprints can be easily done by any members,I have seen that beautiful Albino Card,it will cost probably
a Fortune on Ebay,but,it's just a 3 Monthes exposure to direct light
As inca911 would observe, I'm sure, alternate fourth can be easily faked as well. ;)
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