Magic Library Community Project

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mintcollector
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Post by mintcollector » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:13 pm

Hank: Any chance of posting some scans of his work?

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Erl00
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Post by Erl00 » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:31 pm

Great ideas!

Just a dumb remark. If the envisaged products are a bit borderline with Copyright infringements, would it be a good idea to directly ask for WotC's blessing before launching the production?

As the financial benefits would be used to finance a MtG community of collectors, who definitely contribute to the development of the game, I don't see why they would refuse.

Any comment appreciated :)
Regards,
Eric.

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mintcollector
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Post by mintcollector » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:07 pm

Erl00 wrote: Just a dumb remark. If the envisaged products are a bit borderline with Copyright infringements, would it be a good idea to directly ask for WotC's blessing before launching the production?
Eric: My experience is don't ask and don't tell in situations like this. As long as you are sticking to the boundaries others have used, you should be safe.
Erl00 wrote: As the financial benefits would be used to finance a MtG community of collectors, who definitely contribute to the development of the game, I don't see why they would refuse.
Refuse? That is laughable....anyone can refuse. I would not expect any favors or niceties from a company that makes a lot of money off of a given product. If they feel any threat from you, lawyers can come down like a ton of bricks. Once again, as long as you are staying out in the fringes like everyone else, there shoudl be no problems of infringement.

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dry cereal
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Post by dry cereal » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:09 pm

sounds like a good idea hammer. Either that, or fzappa has connections with Ron Spencer.

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Post by Porkinho » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:39 pm

This is a great idea! Though I support the ideia of textless proxies and great artwork, here's a tip: When I first started magic, I used to draw my own lands, with my design (I'm an horrible designer by the way), and a few months later, I used asked my cousin to draw me some lands... and He was 5 years old, now you get the picture ;) they're awesome!

Anyway, in a comercial way, textless proxies, with cool artwork will work fine :> and if it says LIMITED EDITION better yet ;)

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Post by Dilligaf » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:13 am

dry cereal wrote:sounds like a good idea hammer. Either that, or fzappa has connections with Ron Spencer.
Ron Spencer is the man..

check the art mod's he did for me in my other thread.

I would TOTALLY buy any kind of limited art stuff by him, he's my new hero.

I still like Brom too tho. But now I've met Ron, and he is by far the nicest artist I've ever met.
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** Trying to collect one of each (at least) Brom Artwork.. if you have extra stuff, PM me.. AP's too!

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Post by normalbrains » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:55 am

contacting artists about doing work would be great but i think we have to have a serious idea about what we're doing here beforehand. we at least need a budget in mind if we are going to try and commsion art. lets say we make a set of card 6 to 8 cards with a print run of 500 each (plus 100 foils each, but lets leave them out for now). if we sell these sets for $10, thats $5,000 we could recoup. providing we find investors who are willing to put up $ towards the project, we would have a budget of up to $5,000 to spend on the cards. this would go towards printing, art, and packaging if any. i can invest in this project, but not $5,000. if a trusted member of this community (ralph?, gunslinga?) was made treasurer, would anybody else be willing to help fund this project? i think thats the first step. since ive never undertaken something like this, id like to hear dragsamou's and jess's comments on making a set from scratch and the money involved. thats probably the most important thing to consider at this point- is it financially feasible?

also, how many of recent 3rd party sets were made, how many were sold, and for how much money? is 500 sets to many? too little? just throwing out ideas...

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:47 am

normalbrains wrote:id like to hear dragsamou's comments on making a set from scratch and the money involved. thats probably the most important thing to consider at this point- is it financially feasible?
Hi.
Making a Set of "?"Scratch,is totally possible.The only thing ,I can talk about is Tokens,as I do not have any Experience with the others products mentioned.As,I'm Only Collecting,I do not find that much interest in Proxies and there's enough Tokens,but Magic Rarities Stickers can interest me or Special Cards.I do believe that any of these projects involved the same things:
Finding which "?",we want to print:Tokens,Stickers,etc...
Finding an Artist and his Fee for creating Cards.
Number of "?" cards,Limited or not Limited to which quantity?
Quality of the "?".Glossy,Foil,etc...
Price of the Shipping(Registrated Mail or another Safe System with insurance)
Which material will be used to carry the"?".
Price of the material.
Test Prints or not?
Price of the complete printing.
Price for the correction.
Time it takes for the printing.
Once,we have most of the anwers to these points,we can have a better idea,of the approximative cost.I will gladly help,and share my experience,as soon as I know what we are exactely looking for.
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Post by normalbrains » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:24 pm

dragsamou- perhaps you could tell me specifics about the limited edition neo-tokens you had made. what kind of printer did you go thru? what were the costs? did they all sell well? what country were they made in? how was the quality? what is the "cost of correction"? any and all info would be greatly appreciated. if youd rather not discuss financial stuff in an open forum, please feel free to p.m. me.


i appreciate all the comments, guys. i dont think i can organize and execute this whole project by myself. is anybody interested in putting in some effort and time towards this? i think this project has promise, but it wont exist unless its a "community project". let me know if youre inspired to join.

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Post by Celebrindor » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:03 pm

normalbrains wrote:dragsamou- perhaps you could tell me specifics about the limited edition neo-tokens you had made. what kind of printer did you go thru? what were the costs? did they all sell well? what country were they made in? how was the quality? what is the "cost of correction"? any and all info would be greatly appreciated. if youd rather not discuss financial stuff in an open forum, please feel free to p.m. me.


i appreciate all the comments, guys. i dont think i can organize and execute this whole project by myself. is anybody interested in putting in some effort and time towards this? i think this project has promise, but it wont exist unless its a "community project". let me know if youre inspired to join.
I'm in.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:03 pm

normalbrains wrote:dragsamou- perhaps you could tell me specifics about the limited edition neo-tokens you had made. what kind of printer did you go thru?
Hi.
I have to leave the Artistic and Printing part to Jess,as,he's the one responsible.The printer is a local one in France.I'm more responsible of the Promotional and Commercial part.
what were the costs?
Roughly below 2000$
did they all sell well?
While most of the Series were and are Limited to 100 Boosters now(6 Tokens),the Special Library was printed to 200 Boosters,this was too much.Most of the Series are almost Sold Out,except that one,but no money were lost.
what country were they made in?
France.
how was the quality?
You never bought Neo-Tokens ;D
You should ask Members or read previous Post,but even that we went through some problems with Printing,I do believe that the quality is there.
what is the "cost of correction"?
This part needs to be dealt with the printer at the beginning,to know what's going on in case of Misprints,or any others problems.
any and all info would be greatly appreciated. if youd rather not discuss financial stuff in an open forum, please feel free to p.m. me.
The Financial part is the cost for France,and to send from France,I think,
you should try to find the cost for the US.
i appreciate all the comments, guys. i dont think i can organize and execute this whole project by myself. is anybody interested in putting in some effort and time towards this? i think this project has promise, but it wont exist unless its a "community project". let me know if youre inspired to join.
As,I'm currently involved with the Neo-Tokens Project Series 4,and Jess and I,are needing some infos and choices(Which Tokens,etc..) from the Members(This will be another Topic in few days),if I can help another Project,with pleasure :D
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Lasbrook
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Post by Lasbrook » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:13 pm

I would probably have to agree that tokens are flooded as it is, and it might be counterintuitive since dragsamou and Jess are already working on the next set of Neo-Tokens.

How about we do a set of life counters? Nothing as complex as the official WOTC ones but something akin to the Duelist Life Counters. The plus side to this is if we get totally original art comissioned then we wouldnt really have to worry about copyright infringement or stuff like that.

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Post by Celebrindor » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:00 pm

Lasbrook wrote:I would probably have to agree that tokens are flooded as it is, and it might be counterintuitive since dragsamou and Jess are already working on the next set of Neo-Tokens.

How about we do a set of life counters? Nothing as complex as the official WOTC ones but something akin to the Duelist Life Counters. The plus side to this is if we get totally original art comissioned then we wouldnt really have to worry about copyright infringement or stuff like that.
Life counters have been done too. I think textless proxies are a the best idea yet.

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Post by normalbrains » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:25 am

this is what i think is the currently the best idea:

a small set of 4 to 6 textless proxies based on cards that are currently very expensive. this will have value to high end collectors who dont want to damage their real cards in gameplay, and also have value to the average collector who cant obtain these cards, but wants to play them without using basic lands.


the main cards (besides power of course) that i can think of that fit into this catergory:

mishra's workshop: workshop
mana drain: drain
bazaar of baghdad: bazaar
illusionary mask: mask

also, juzam djinn, imperial seal, zodiac dragon, chains of mephistopheles have no cheaper counterpart or are hard to get ahold of.

if the cards are going to be textless, then the quality of the art must be extremely high, so enlisting the talents of good artists and even real magic artists is important. i think ron spencer's infernal spawn of evil holding up a big illusionary mask would be awesome. rebecca guay has done third party tokens before. i wonder if ed beard jr would be interested. can you think of any better cards to make proxies of?

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Post by ende73 » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:45 pm

I find the idea of creating textless proxies with Latin names is absolutely gorgeous, obviously provided the Art is easily identifiable with the card (I think Time Walk might end up being called something like Deambulatio temporalis - but I don't know Latin very well :oops: - so we'd have to make sure the drawing fits with the card's concept to make it understood by the public.

I might be old fashioned, but I'd really stick to the P10 like Gamingetc. did, the reason also being that the P10 are restricted so we'd "force" people to buy one single set only (if we made Workshop or Mana Drain etc. then either people would need to buy 4 sets which they might not want to do, or they'd have 1 proxy only out of 4 cards in their deck which doesn't make sense).

I believe we'd therefore need to create sets of 10 cards.

Using Hank's friend would be great if he's available, and I am certainly willing to finance part of this project as long as we can likely recover costs, keep at least one set ourselves and use any profits to benefit this website.

Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience with printing similar material, nor any useful connection, so I can't be helpful there.

I can certainly find someone to make accurate Latin translations though... maybe we could include even some flavor text on these ?

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