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Magic Library Logo Project
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:50 pm
Ralph has wanted a proper logo for this website for some time now. He has had high hopes of getting a proper logo developed. And what is proper you may ask? Well Ralph envisions have an established M:TG artist design our site logo. This logo can then be used as Ralph sees fit. Ideas of putting the logo on the back of the textless dual lands that will be made by the site, creating t-shirts and various other Magic Library swag can then be done.
I offered my services to lead the project on a recent phone call Ralph made to me and he accepted. Since the website is owned by Ralph, the logo will end up being approved by him. I spent some time askng Ralph a series on questions regarding the project. Here is what was asked:
Q: What is the basic layout for the logo you want Ralph?
A: A landscape layout featuring a remote mountain holding a medieval or victorian style library. The scene will be much like to ninja dojo in Batman Begins. The idea is to have the library represent a remote location that is a metaphor for reaching enlightment and knowledge and to be a goal to achieve them.
Q: Well what artist would you prefer to have contracted to design the logo?
A: I want an established M:TG artist to do the logo artwork. Since I want a landscape I would like to have one of my favorite landscape artists do the artwork.
Q: Well who are your favorite artists and in what preference order do you have?
A: Rob Alexander, John Avon, Edward J Bear.
Q: Well I will see what I can do to see if we can get any of these artists, but what happens if a first pick is busy but is interested in doing the project, but do to other commitments will not be available for a few months. Would you prefer to get another artist or wait?
A: I would definitely sacrifice time as it is most important to get the best logo we can in my opinion.
Q: Have you seen some of the new Ravinica art, specifically the cityscape piece by a new artist premiering in this block by Jim Murray? It may be more cost effective using an artist that is 'new' to the scene.
A: Yes I have and I thought the piece was very well done. This is something we may want to consider.
This then ended most of the basic questions. Ralph then expressed an interest that although I offered to fund all if not most of the logo, he wanted this to be a community effort in decision making with Ralph having the end vote, but also allowing people to kick in money if they wish to help. We also discussed how this would tie into the textless dual land project as well. After an hour or so talking about all of this I went ahead and sent of a contact email to Rob Alexander. The email just basically gave Rob the intentions of what we want commissioned and to see if he had an interest in it. We talked about legality issues and options regarding what boundaries would be set for ownerships of the property.
My plans going forward are to send out follow up emails after a 3 days grace period to a subsequent artist on the list. I made Ralph aware he may have to come up with more artists should be not get responses in the next couple weeks.
I also asked Ralph to go through existing art piece by these artist and try to find one that visually matches Ralph's vision of the logo. This will help minimize the time it would take to get past art concept sketches.
i'll use this thread to keep status on the happenings on the logo project.
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:00 pm
As I see people are already responding to everything I have written so far, I do not want to edit my previous post with some thins I left out, so they will be presented here.
One point I forgot to mention is that the art logo needs to scale. We will want a logo that when shrunk will still be distinquisable on a card back, but have plenty of detail when enlarged on let's say a t-shirt.
Another is a blaring one I left out. That is how to identify the logo as being related to Magic Library. Ralph wants the core piece to be art only and free of text. He wants to see if we can get the words Magic Library in the sky or in an area in the upper half so you can id the logo quickly.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:43 pm
let us know when you get some responses. the description somewhat reminded me of this pic:
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:53 pm
Will do on the responses. Nothing from Rob yet.
Interesting pic. This was more along the lines of what I had envisioned. My thoughts were to have a library on a mesa overlooking a large city that would have a mixture of discernable architectures for each of the five colors. The library would have many tall wizard towsers/spires. The library would be the city center and have a luminous aura around it.
As I said though, Magic Library is Ralph's and therefore the logo should represent what he feels the site is, so the project will bend to his wishes.
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:55 pm
mintcollector wrote:that would have a mixture of discernable architectures for each of the five colors.
Wow. this is getting really freaky. Never before have mintcollector and I thought alike so much. I was going to suggest that myself.... ;)
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:48 pm
mintcollector wrote:Will do on the responses. Nothing from Rob yet.
Just remind Rob of that last E-mail,he sent me,and ask him,if he's ready for another Trip
He's an Amazing Artist sitting on a "Slow Boat going to China" ;D
I feel like I've run a marathon with you - but I'm glad you got the cards at last.Thanks again for being sooooo patient with me.Take care,Rob
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:58 pm
Wait, are we talking about a website logo or a full on piece of art here?
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:35 pm
Lasbrook wrote:Wait, are we talking about a website logo or a full on piece of art here?
Ralph wants the logo to be primarily art-centric. By this a full piece of art would be developed and then made into a logo. The core piece would be an untouched pice made to what Ralph wanted. The art might either be shrunk or parts used for smaller items. For example a close up of the libray could be used versus shrinking the whole piece to fit onto a card back, while a t-shirt might support the full art.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:29 pm
Ok, that makes more sense then. I think a mini-logo would work better for some things anyways(like if you wanted to take up the same space at the top as the current logo does). And it would cost less for the cardbacks than if the full logo were used since it wouldnt be full color nor as complex.
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:42 pm
mintcollector did an excellent job to summarize my opinion about this project (and the Dual Land project), so there is little to add at the moment. One aspect I wish to emphasize nonetheless is that my vision of the artwork is not final. The idea described above is just the idea I liked most from the ideas which came to my mind. For example, I like mintcollector's idea (which he did not tell me during the phone call) a lot. It would solve the basic problem how to somehow incorporate the spirit of Magic: The Gathering into the artwork without infringing copyrights. I fear that this motif might distract the focus on the library building too much, though. More data will be needed to allow a decision.
In summary, if you think you have a good idea for a logo, post your thoughts here.
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:46 pm
Ralph Herold wrote:mintcollector did an excellent job to summarize my opinion about this project (and the Dual Land project), so there is little to add at the moment. One aspect I wish to emphasize nonetheless is that my vision of the artwork is not final. The idea described above is just the idea I liked most from the ideas which came to my mind. For example, I like mintcollector's idea (which he did not tell me during the phone call) a lot. It would solve the basic problem how to somehow incorporate the spirit of Magic: The Gathering into the artwork without infringing copyrights. I fear that this motif might distract the focus on the library building too much, though. More data will be needed to allow a decision.
In summary, if you think you have a good idea for a logo, post your thoughts here.
Well the building would be large and have a glowly aura over, thereby attracting the main focus to the building. On a side note, I did get a cursory response from one of the artists I contacts, but until more develops I do not wish to disclose much else.
Ralph: The idea of this logo was to make what you have wanted. I started to describe my idea on the phone to you, but after hearing you wanted the library to be ina remote mountain location and the reason behind it, my idea did not seem to fit the bill. I forwarded you the response I got from the artist.
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:27 pm
John Avon sent back a second email with a series of questions. For all to see...here was his email:
Finally I find some time to look at your work idea. Thanks for thinking
of me and here is a list of initial questions which will sort out if it
is viable- then we can go into the detail. My problem is always one of
time! I am a father of 2 kids and busy always with work so I need to
schedule, plus I go to the odd event and sign millions of cards...
1. When would you need to see first sketches
2. The final date needed for the full colour artwork
3. What is the absolute maximum fee you can raise (remember that this
is multi usage and looks like you want full copyright)
4. A reasonable description of what you need me to paint
5. I now only work digitally so the job will be delivered either by
ADSL or sent on CD
6. How many people will be "art directing" the work
After this I will then see if we can work together and if not tell you
asap so you can find an alternative
The only question I could not answer with accuracy was question #3.
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:58 am
John Avon replied back to me after his recent studio move.
Finally I have found 3 hourâ€™s to look at my commitments for the next few months.....
I have read the brief, it sounds like an epic, quite a challenging and specific piece but if done right would look pretty impressive!!!. I worked on the Arena lands for Ravnica (should be my best ever I hope)- buildings are tricky, but look great if done well- they just take allot of designing / perspective etc.
So my main points are these:
I am an artist who cannot rush work and throw 101% into magic art. I can see this job will take time and needs to be competitive with other illoâ€™s that will come in at the same time. As you are looking at what we call â€œtotal copyright buyoutâ€ we need to split the fee into two areas, one to do the work, the second for usage. You have potential to make money out of secondary products (over time) and this can add up to a decent income- so copyright is a valuable thing, just in itself.
ILLUSTRATION FEE: For me to produce this complicated architectural image, I would charge approximately $2000
FULL COPYRIGHT: This needs to be a similar fee (normally it is about 2* the AW fee) but lets say $1800
I want to stress that I fully understand and respect what people are prepared to pay and never had a problem with what clients see as fair, or what I see I need. Some artists work for very low wages, I have luckily always been able to get what is mostly a respectable amount for what are very specialized skills.
Rough Sketch: I could do this the week 5th+ so potentially you could see something about the 12th...
Artwork: This is better and I can do it for your deadline of mid October (15th)
This is about as best I can do at the moment and should get the ball rolling in whatever direction!
Thanks again for being patient, I am normally much better at responding and hopefully wonâ€™t be moving studioâ€™s too often...
Well to cut to the point....I had originally personally earmarked $1000 for the project, but currently can come up with $1500 right now. This leaves the project $2300 shy of reality. Since the logo project was voted on to be the predecesessor to any further projects, and we have a shot to get one of M:TG's best land artists (best imo), I am looking for assistance regarding the project as far as money is concerned. Please do recall as John pointed out, that copyright ownership of the art can be used as we see fit and could be a great income generator in the future and allow us to have a great line of products featuring Magic Library on it and help secure this site living on for a very long time.
On a second note, please see John's comments regarding his review of his upcoming commitments. He is trying to plan his next 3 months of work now, so we will need to respond to John soon.
Magic Library needs your help! Ralph, I hope you will help rally this cause as well. We need to be able to give John a firm commitment prior to moving on, but we need to ensure funds are in hand to make ths commitment.
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:02 pm
So as not to get lost in the previous post...I am sure Ralph would agree to creating a special thank you section for supporting to logo project on the site. I think this is the least that could be done to help encourage donations to help keep this site going as well as provide a gateway into future projects like the textless duals.
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:24 pm
i dont have much.. im 24 with a rapidly failing car and i work in a comic shop.. but id be more than willing to donate $100 or more if i have it at the time.
i know it isnt much.. but id like to help as much as i can.