Alternate Art Xth cards ;-)

berkumps · Post by **berkumps** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:21 pm

I need to learn to draw/color so I can make some of these

MAGICSALEMAN · Post by **MAGICSALEMAN** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:51 pm

To make money without paying WOTC and the Artists for their work is braking the law and the copyright Rights Guys.
Do it for yourself that's not a problems but to used the Wotc copyrights and artists work to printed somes new ones to re-sell them that's an another story.
Ebay and Wotc has just been advertise for this fraud. ....

agzz · Post by **agzz** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:05 pm

MAGICSALEMAN wrote:To make money without paying WOTC and the Artists for their work is braking the law and the copyright Rights Guys.
Ebay and Wotc has just been advertise for this fraud.

What are you on about? there is no law that stops you from painting on your cards.

Post by **dragsamou** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:22 pm

MAGICSALEMAN wrote:To make money without paying WOTC and the Artists for their work is braking the law and the copyright Rights Guys.
Do it for yourself that's not a problems but to used the Wotc copyrights and artists work to printed somes new ones to re-sell them that's an another story.
Ebay and Wotc has just been advertise for this fraud. ....

Hi.
I believe these cards are pretty cool and the seller is Very clear about them:

This auction is for a altered by me Seal of Primordium. You may ask who am I? well I'm just some guy who likes to draw on cards. Just to be clear I'm not the original artist of this card.

He bought the cards,then makes some drawings on it and alter them,so what's the point,you need to explain,why,it's a fraud?

MAGICSALEMAN · Post by **MAGICSALEMAN** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:26 pm

For me it is not legal anyway.

You know like me that wizards as a lot of Justice process pending against free software that it is used to make cards (perhaps with a different picture) but ... anyway with the same design that has the wotc cards.
So copyrights.
Copyright is not only to make false cards, like alpha ones (you can find in China each week P9 NM) , it is also using the works of another people to make illegal money without contributions to his owner.

In this case, (cards are very nice effectively but...), the seller use the pictures of an artist, all the texts of wotc but he has re-worked the design of the cards to make a profit for him. (No money for the artist, no money for wotc).
Effectively, you are free to paint your cards but to use the copyright etc... to re-work it and to re-sell it that's not legal.

Dixit :

"Please let me know if there is a card you would like me to do. "

"What are you on about? there is no law that stops you from painting on your cards."

Yes effectively but...Let's think a little ...

If tomorrow one of us launch on the market a CCG and after 1 week a unknow guys re-worked your cards (design etc...) and re-sell it .... ?
What you would think about ???
$:-\'$

He said tournament legals... perhaps but for his own game, his own collection ....
I don't blame the guy but for me there's something that's not legal anywhere.
In two month you will see perhaps, why not a complete set Morningtide alternate art with a brand new design reworked ??
I'm very curious to see the head of the Wotc Staff. $:-\'$

berkumps · Post by **berkumps** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:53 pm

In this case, (cards are very nice effectively but...), the seller use the pictures of an artist, all the texts of wotc but he has re-worked the design of the cards to make a profit for him. (No money for the artist, no money for wotc).

I don't think the artists of MTG cards are entitled to any money/royalties if their art is used for card modifications/alterations, as:

"Ever since 1995, the copyright on all artwork commissioned is transferred to Wizards of the Coast once a contract is signed. However, the artist is allowed to sell the original piece and printed reproductions of it, and for established and prolific Magic artists, this can be a lucrative source of revenue."

Spectral_bears · Post by **Spectral_bears** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:24 am

There is no difference between these alterations and if the seller had gotten the cards signed by say Garfield. Both result in the card selling for more than it is actually worth and neither are in breach of a copyright.

PolarBearGod · Post by **PolarBearGod** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:55 am

In addition to this, WotC OWNS most of the artwork produced, yet they still allow artists to advertise on their sites that they do alterations. I've seen them offer this at large events as well, right in front of Richard Garfield himself.

MAGICSALEMAN · Post by **MAGICSALEMAN** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:55 am

Where are the Wotc copyright on thoses cards ?
Look further...
Nowhere....
Disepear.....
He doesn't draw in any way.
He has just download the complete art frame available on Wotc and Artist site, he reworked it with photoshop or other an another software.
He printed it and tape it on a card.
Playing with Co....
I'll do some for example soon to show you

Wotc terms of use :
http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Default. ... egalNotice

Grapes17 · Post by **Grapes17** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:08 am

MAGICSALEMAN wrote:Where are the Wotc copyright on thoses cards ?
Look further...
Nowhere....
Disepear.....
He doesn't draw in any way.
He has just download the complete art frame available on Wotc and Artist site, he reworked it with photoshop or other an another software.
He printed it and tape it on a card.
Playing with Co....
I'll do some for example soon to show you

Wotc terms of use :
http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Default. ... egalNotice

Uhh.... I think you are missing the point here...

He is taking a real live magic card and painting over the edges of it. There is no photoshop or printing involved.

This is nothing different than an artist modification or Richard Garfields signature.

MAGICSALEMAN · Post by **MAGICSALEMAN** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:31 am

Grapes17 where are the Wotc copyright on the cards ?
(That's the most important)

Look :

http://www.boros-szikszai.com/picture/322/

I'll try to do it the same today.
Some examples quickly made.

PS : I'm open from Monday to Friday from 8h00 AM to 6h00 PM

The Last one is perhaps the best.
And I'm not a painter programmer $:-\'$

agzz · Post by **agzz** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:16 am

Grapes17 where are the Wotc copyright on the cards ?
(That's the most important)

You dont need to write a copyright text on a photo and so on to have the copyright for it, its automatic. that however do not mean that nobody may touch it in any kind of way.

you dont see the difference in produsing your own cards and altering ones produced by and bought from the copyright holder?

magic-belgium · Post by **magic-belgium** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:28 am

I just hope that it is not you Magicsaleman who sent the mail to Ebay.

Christopher Rush makes a lot of altered cards, they sell for a fortune, and nothing is given to WOTC.

The artists get a fixed amount for the drawings they make, and that's it. There is no intellectual property dued to them after this, unless other agreements are made.

These cards are definitely cool, and I would be VERY surprised that you, Magicsaleman, part of this forum, would claim out a fraud on these...

MAGICSALEMAN · Post by **MAGICSALEMAN** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:16 pm

"You dont need to write a copyright text on a photo and so on to have the copyright for it, its automatic. that however do not mean that nobody may touch it in any kind of way. "

you dont see the difference in produsing your own cards and altering ones produced by and bought from the copyright holder?"

Yes ok you don't need but ...
Texts is from Wotc protected Co.
Design is from Wotc protected Co.
Pictures has been given by the artist to Wotc in exchange of paiement.
Yes ok and the artist can use his art to altered it.
You can draw on your cards, everything you want but ... if... you begin to use the copyright and art of the others to reworked it, and to re-sell it for your own profit without agreement and/or paiement of copyright... you are outside the law.
That's I want to say.

"Christopher Rush makes a lot of altered cards, they sell for a fortune, and nothing is given to WOTC.

The artists get a fixed amount for the drawings they make, and that's it. There is no intellectual property dued to them after this, unless other agreements are made. "

That'is is own art, own work.
Licence agreement with Wotc after paiement.
He do what is will with his work.
But he altered himself is own work that's a big difference.

I'm the fisrt one to protect the Artists, their arts, their copyright.
Imagine that tomorrow I print or draw on the Ajani above that I have made quickly and resell it on ebay wiith this kind of title :
Ajani Goldman - mtg - Rare & Wonderful Alternate Home made - No reserve !
What will happen nothing ?
I'm free to use this pictures to my own profit ?
What shall Wotc and the Artsit think about that ?

For me all of that is a open door to a complete non-sense that's I want to say Guys...

magic-belgium · Post by **magic-belgium** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:07 pm

In my opinion, there are people at WOTC who are paid to judge whether something is against their interest or not.

It is not necessary to be zealous as you were, unless you want to become a lawyer specialized in the rights of Intellectual Property.

All of this is a storm in a teacup anyway, and for your information, since you are not the owner of the copyrights for the cards listed on Ebay (what Ebay calls the VERO program), there is little chance they take your claim into consideration.

I still think these cards are beautiful and I hope WOTC will see them and give them the idea to do more.

This guy had a truly brilliant idea, and trying to get his auctions closed is not a good idea.

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Alternate Art Xth cards ;-)

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