Odd PSA

[Ertai's Familiar]

http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Magic-Cards-Unl ... 4602wt_943

Picture shows Unlimited Ancestral Recall with BETA PSA sticker. Thoughts?

Seller states:

Condition: Graded PSA 9

"It says Beta on the PSA insert, but it is Unlimited.
I do not have any certificate to validate the authenticity of this grading.
Either way the condition of the Ancestral recall is very good as can be seen in the pictures!"

I'm thinking of reporting this one.

This guy has also been listing English cards as Korean and posting them with shotty pictures. I have already reported a few of his auctions, no action taken by eBay yet.

[dragsamou]

http://cgi.ebay.com/MTG-Magic-Cards-Unl ... 4602wt_943

Picture shows Unlimited Ancestral Recall with BETA PSA sticker. Thoughts?

Seller states:

Condition: Graded PSA 9

"It says Beta on the PSA insert, but it is Unlimited.
I do not have any certificate to validate the authenticity of this grading.
Either way the condition of the Ancestral recall is very good as can be seen in the pictures!"

I'm thinking of reporting this one.

This guy has also been listing English cards as Korean and posting them with shotty pictures. I have already reported a few of his auctions, no action taken by eBay yet.

Hi
This website is not aimed to report Ebay auctions, do it directely on Ebay if you feel so, it will not be the first time that PSA are wrong about a card Edition.This seller is 100% Positive feedbacks, I really don't see the point for him, to get a Negative vote.

[Magic61983]

This isn't the first time they've screwed up on label. I've seen a Doppleganger that had Unlimited when it was actually revised. It was probably a mistake. I'm not sure how hard it is to take a card out of a PSA case and be able to put it back in. A scan of the back would really be the deciding factor.

[dragsamou]

I'm not sure how hard it is to take a card out of a PSA case and be able to put it back in.

Hi
I tried once to take off a Beta Volcanic Island from a PSA case, as I needed it for my collection Mint, the case literaly explodes, I thought that the card was ruined, hopefully card was untouched, I'm not for sure the Expert to do so

[NeRo]

A scan of the back would really be the deciding factor.

there are 2 photos of the back in the auction.

imo there is no way to exchange what is inside a psa case. when you watch videos on youtube of people cracking psa cases you will notice that the cases are really done after opening them in any way.

really nice item.

[l0qii]

PSA is run by humans, and mistakes happen. They will replace mislabeled slabs for free.

[Ertai's Familiar]

I understand all that has been said, having also removed cards from PSA cases. My issue is the condition, look at the back. How is that even close to a 9? Also in this day and age is it that hard to fake something like a PSA case? The seller's other false listings left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Tha_Gunslinga]

The back makes it look more like a 7 than a 9. Yet another reason why I will never grade any of my cards.

[Ertai's Familiar]

The back makes it look more like a 7 than a 9. Yet another reason why I will never grade any of my cards.

One could say the scan/photo is bad, however I can clearly see wear to the back edges/corners that is not artifacts from the method of scanning or taking a photo.

I just wanted people to be aware.

[hammr7]

There are any number of scams that can be run on supposedly "PSA" cards.

Years ago, when Magic cards were first being graded, there was a problem with the integrity of the slab. One or more individuals had found ways to open the slabs with little or no evidence of tampering, except under a microscope. Supposedly PSA had to redesign the packaging to strengthen and modify the plastic welds so they would better show tampering.

There have been a few scams where individuals have harvested the PSA stickers, and/or have created extremely good counterfeits, and used them with phony slabs to overgrade cards. In such cases you may be able to look up a card in the PSA database and have it appear real. The original grading could have been appropriate, but the current offering isn't that original card.

An old example on Baseball Cards can be found here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=89073

PSA does not normally respond to frauds attempted on its packaging. But the potential problems are big enough that a new level of security is being added for magic cards, as described here:

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article ... com&type=1

[ende73]

The back makes it look more like a 7 than a 9. Yet another reason why I will never grade any of my cards.

Wow, we're actually agreeing on this one

[Tha_Gunslinga]

Now, to be fair, I do own a few graded cards. I have a PSA 6 crimped Beta Demonic Tutor that I picked up a while back, which is the only PSA-graded crimp I have ever seen, though obviously anyone could send them one and get it graded. I also have a half-dozen PSA-7 and 8 Alpha/Beta cards that I picked up at $1-2 each that make good drink coasters. Nothing else though.

[Magic61983]

Wow I just looked at the back of that recall and I'm pissed my Unlimited Recall came back a 9. My recall makes this one look like a piece of junk. The bottom right corner is nicked up as well as the edge from the looks of it.

[Ertai's Familiar]

Wow I just looked at the back of that recall and I'm pissed my Unlimited Recall came back a 9. My recall makes this one look like a piece of junk. The bottom right corner is nicked up as well as the edge from the looks of it.

That's because it isn't. I recently picked up two PSA9 Power and both put this to shame. IMHO this item is fake on some level. Sorry I just don't see how PSA could grade this card as BETA, black/white boarder. On top of that I fail to see how a EX/EX- back = PSA9. even then this card was taken and registered in their database and no one saw the error?

[thulnanth]

Hey All,

While I do like graded cards and usually defend the practice, all I can say about this card is... wow. I would never have even submitted something that looked that bad - you can even see the wear on the front corners (right where the rounding starts). As a big grader of Unlimiteds, I can say that is no 9... maybe a 7. In addition the flip being wrong, while not unheard of, is disconcerting on such a poorly graded card.

To the sellers credit, s/he put up some nice scans rather than hiding behind the grade. I pulled up some of the cards around the order and no other MtG cards came up - unusual to submit like that. I can't honestly say if it is a case of PSA being asleep at the wheel or some deception going on after the fact. This is exactly the kind of card that scares people away from grading/graded cards, and rightly so. It would do PSA well to keep garbage like that from ever seeing the light of day.

In the end though, it does prove the old adage "buy the card, not the holder". I do think grading has a valid purpose in the marketplace - despite the occasional POS card like this, I am still more confidant in buying a PSA 9 mint card sight unseen that your typical MtG sellers "mint" card. Most of the people on this site are very good at grading cards themselves and as such really don't need PSA or BGS to tell them what a card is, once the card is in hand.

Most of the rise of grading services, be it card, coin, comic or toy, can be tied to the rise of eBay as the main marketplace for collectibles. When you no longer are buying in person, it is even harder to verify condition. While grading services are by no means perfect (as we all know), they do add a layer of confidence to many "sight unseen" transactions. I think one of the mistakes many savvy buyers (like you guys) make is to assume grading companies are out to "replace" you; to render your skills obsolete. Not at all - I would still trust a card graded by many people on these boards more than one graded by PSA or BGS. OTOH, many novice buyers put too much faith in grading at times, and never learn to develop their own skills.

To me, card grading is simply another tool to help when not buying cards in person. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than buying from a trustworthy and accurate seller? No. Is it better than buying blind from your typical eBay seller? Absolutely.

As for grading cards for your own collection (not to sell) - I can see reasons for both. I like the safety of having my cards slabbed; it both protects the card for storage/display purposes and gives me better proof of ownership (in case of loss). In addition, I like the Registry - it's a fun way to show off some of what you got to others, and a nice way to meet fellow collectors. Having said that, the bulk of my collection is ungraded, and I don't disagree with collectors when they say they have no desire to have their stuff graded. It is expensive, takes up extra room, risks your cards to damage in the process, and for many simply tells them what they already know.

In the end, it all boils down to personal preference . Just my $.02 worth - thanks for listening.

Take it easy,
Jared