Black Lotus AP and fake APs.

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berkumps
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Post by berkumps » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:03 pm

cataclysm80 wrote:From what I understand, because there are so many, they are thrown in as a bonus for anyone who purchases a card.
Tav
That's cool, a Buy-a-Card promo? Maybe we need a new section on the board for these?

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Post by cataclysm80 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:17 am

Here are some scans I can share.

Image

Each Row on the sheet tests different card features, so every card on the sheet is different. (I hope no one was trying for a global set with test prints of these cards, because that's a lot of different test prints to collect!) These cards are from the top 4 rows. I don't have time to explain a lot right now, but a pretty thorough explanation can be found here about 2/3 of the way down the page.
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... c&start=15

Tav

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:08 am

cataclysm80 wrote:(I hope no one was trying for a global set with test prints of these cards, because that's a lot of different test prints to collect!)
Thanks for the scans Tav, some of the serious collectors that I know from this board, will never buy those Non factory Cut test prints, a lot of us know who's in charge of the cutting part, for most of the Uncut sheets, glad I never collect those. So after Misprints, Artist Proofs, Test Prints, what will be the next one...
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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:32 am

Wow! historically, very interesting... Thanks much.

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box1985
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Post by box1985 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:25 pm

AbsolutAlphas wrote:I did buy a few of these just as placeholders in my set until I can get real proofs. These are the ones I picked up:

Air Elemental
Camouflage
Demonic Hordes
Nightmare
Karma
Time Walk
Wall of Ice

Did anyone else win any?
I won some cards but didn't received yet

Psionic Blast
Dwarven Warrior
Benalish Hero
Ice Storm
throne of Bone
white Ward
Warp Artifact
deathgrip

All great cards as you can See LOL 😂

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Post by BreakingRalter » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:28 pm

I also purchased several of these and have mixed feelings about my actions. I am glad I did it and have the cards, but do feel a bit grimy about being party to the sacrilegious cutting of such a sheet and helping perpetuate the cycle where such an act is profitable and further undermine the sanctity of the miscut market. Despite that I bought them for a number of reasons. They were budget placeholder/curiosity/specimen placebo pills for my collection and if someone is going to buy them it might as well be someone like me who will take them off the market rather than flipping them. So yea that's my mental justification, but still do not feel great about it.

For those tracking these I purchased the following:

Circle of Protection: Blue
Shatter
Hill Giant
Guardian Angel
Phantasmal Terrain

Pics: http://imgur.com/a/vgwFD

While I did not make record of others that sold, I will also be keeping a lookout on ebay. I recently notice a few suspect auctions. They come from a seller that dices up sheets. Unlike his other auctions I see no notice that these are NFC, although one does at least specify in the title that the corners were rounded. Does the Italian one look legit?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321659489548?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221681268528?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321659488971?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221681267568?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Also want to be on record saying I love the name Curveball Beta.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:55 am

BreakingRalter wrote: While I did not make record of others that sold, I will also be keeping a lookout on ebay. I recently notice a few suspect auctions. They come from a seller that dices up sheets. Unlike his other auctions I see no notice that these are NFC, although one does at least specify in the title that the corners were rounded.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221681268528?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
That Badlands is the one that was sold previously by Kidicarus2000, but this time not mentioning:This card was cut from a complete uncut sheet of Beta Artist Proofs by a previous owner. Please see the scans above for the actual card condition. Also, please note, this was cut from a sheet that was rolled up, so the card has some warping to it. I'm pretty sure you can flatten it out if you try, but can't guarantee that.

Image
Kidicarus2000

Image
hotyoga123

Indeed, it was exactly what I thought will happened, buying those at the first place, selling them on Ebay or else, then to be sold again without mentioning that they are Non factory cut. Badlands should be reported and everyone knows that hotyoga123 is Mister NFC, the list of sheets that he bought or sheets from others that he helped being cutted is too long to mentioned. :-&
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Post by kidicarus2000 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:51 pm

Hey guys! This is Preston (kidicarus) and I wanted to post and explain my position on the cut APs being discussed. I've wanted to post a response to this since it first popped up, but felt it was more appropriate to wait until they were all sold before posting anything.

I sold the cut Beta APs as a favor to a close friend of mine. He asked me to sell them as full sheets back in 2013 and I spent a year trying to do that. When there was no interest, I tried to buy them for awesome wall art at my office, but we couldn't agree on a price we were both happy with.

I advised against having them cut, but he chose to do so and asked me to sell them on eBay. I initially said no because I didn't want people thinking I was trying to pass NFC proofs as FC ones. I thought adding the explanation in the description would be enough, but unfortunately a lot of people don't read the descriptions on eBay anymore.

Personally, I've only cut one sheet in my life and that was the Exodus test print sheet discussed above. I struggled with the decision to cut that one for a year and a half, while trying to sell it as a full sheet. In the end, I couldn't find anyone who was interested in such an expensive sheet. Cutting it turned one unique sheet that no one wanted into 72 unique cards that can be collected and traded, which seems like a net win for the rarity community.

I understand that people have differing opinions about NFC cards. I personally like to see the history of the game preserved and hate seeing things like the Beta AP sheets cut. I tried very hard to find a home for the sheets before they got cut, but unfortunately failed. At the same time, I can't really fault my friend for having them cut and trying to recoup his investment. I wouldn't have done the same in his position, but I can understand the desire to do so.

Sorry for the long-winded response guys. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew my opinion on the matter, since I had gotten some less-than-fair feedback from some people.

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Post by dragsamou » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:37 pm

kidicarus2000 wrote:Hey guys! This is Preston (kidicarus) and I wanted to post and explain my position on the cut APs being discussed. I've wanted to post a response to this since it first popped up, but felt it was more appropriate to wait until they were all sold before posting anything.

I sold the cut Beta APs as a favor to a close friend of mine. He asked me to sell them as full sheets back in 2013 and I spent a year trying to do that. When there was no interest, I tried to buy them for awesome wall art at my office, but we couldn't agree on a price we were both happy with.

I advised against having them cut, but he chose to do so and asked me to sell them on eBay. I initially said no because I didn't want people thinking I was trying to pass NFC proofs as FC ones. I thought adding the explanation in the description would be enough, but unfortunately a lot of people don't read the descriptions on eBay anymore.

Personally, I've only cut one sheet in my life and that was the Exodus test print sheet discussed above. I struggled with the decision to cut that one for a year and a half, while trying to sell it as a full sheet. In the end, I couldn't find anyone who was interested in such an expensive sheet. Cutting it turned one unique sheet that no one wanted into 72 unique cards that can be collected and traded, which seems like a net win for the rarity community.

I understand that people have differing opinions about NFC cards. I personally like to see the history of the game preserved and hate seeing things like the Beta AP sheets cut. I tried very hard to find a home for the sheets before they got cut, but unfortunately failed. At the same time, I can't really fault my friend for having them cut and trying to recoup his investment. I wouldn't have done the same in his position, but I can understand the desire to do so.

Sorry for the long-winded response guys. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew my opinion on the matter, since I had gotten some less-than-fair feedback from some people.
Hi Preston

Thanks for showing up on that topic. You know what I think about NFC, nothing new, this all topic is in fact about only one thing: Greed and Money.
*Owners will say: I do what I want with MTG stuff I buy and own.
*Sellers will say: As long as I mention in description "NFC" all is fine (Even if 75% of the buyers never read description on Ebay and in a more general way People don't read anywhere.)
*Resellers will say: Let's make instant cash, or how I can get back my money now that I realize it's NFC, or can't straight the curve, why they should bother even mentioning that it's NFC as the point is either making more money or getting back money, who cares about reputation when money is involved....Extremely few people.
At the end Owners makes Huge Profit (I know how much was bought the Beta Sheets back in the years, I know how much was bought the Exodus Test Prints, etc...). Sellers makes Big Profit. Resellers can eventually make some money or might loose some, but there's something that no one needs to forget, is at the end those NFC have brought suspicions to all the Miscuts, slowly but surely ruining the market (Ex Revised ones, etc...), with the Artist Proof, as it was the first time that a complete Beta Set was involved, now AP collectors are worried, and with Exodus Test Prints, it's a new dimension, we are talking Huge amount of money here. This is simply really bad for MTG Collectors and players but real good for owners. As, if you wonder my motivation to react and interfere:
- I don't collect Miscuts , or play MTG (So no Pimp factor for me) except the few that I have in my misprints binder, that I did get either for free or bought for peanuts back in the years.
- I'm one of the lucky owner of a complete Beta/CE collector Artist Proof set (To my knowledge, we are only 4 in the world), took me a lil bit of time, but getting them at 5$ back in the years (Except few of them) directly from the artists was a wonderful and exciting quest. I have very few extras, but I don't sell them.
-Test Prints, I never collected them, never was interested, even if I could have own most of them at cheap prices compared to now.
Hope you understand my opinion also, not motivated at all by $$$$, I don't judge no one but simply express my opinion.
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box1985
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Post by box1985 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:23 am

kidicarus2000 wrote:Hey guys! This is Preston (kidicarus) and I wanted to post and explain my position on the cut APs being discussed. I've wanted to post a response to this since it first popped up, but felt it was more appropriate to wait until they were all sold before posting anything.

I sold the cut Beta APs as a favor to a close friend of mine. He asked me to sell them as full sheets back in 2013 and I spent a year trying to do that. When there was no interest, I tried to buy them for awesome wall art at my office, but we couldn't agree on a price we were both happy with.

I advised against having them cut, but he chose to do so and asked me to sell them on eBay. I initially said no because I didn't want people thinking I was trying to pass NFC proofs as FC ones. I thought adding the explanation in the description would be enough, but unfortunately a lot of people don't read the descriptions on eBay anymore.

Personally, I've only cut one sheet in my life and that was the Exodus test print sheet discussed above. I struggled with the decision to cut that one for a year and a half, while trying to sell it as a full sheet. In the end, I couldn't find anyone who was interested in such an expensive sheet. Cutting it turned one unique sheet that no one wanted into 72 unique cards that can be collected and traded, which seems like a net win for the rarity community.

I understand that people have differing opinions about NFC cards. I personally like to see the history of the game preserved and hate seeing things like the Beta AP sheets cut. I tried very hard to find a home for the sheets before they got cut, but unfortunately failed. At the same time, I can't really fault my friend for having them cut and trying to recoup his investment. I wouldn't have done the same in his position, but I can understand the desire to do so.

Sorry for the long-winded response guys. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew my opinion on the matter, since I had gotten some less-than-fair feedback from some people.
Hi Preston,
As I wrote before I won some of your auctions.
I'm a little collector who didn't know what an AP was before I read a lot of post in this forum :D
After that I decides to bid for cards with illustration that I like or with a reasonable price for a non factory card
As a "collector" didn't buy them for a profit (i'm not a reseller :)) but in MY OPINION the image of the card were a little bit misleading.
If I was the seller I would have insert the photo as the Volcanic Island re-listed now on ebay.
(you wrote all the story, cut from a sheet that was rolled ecc...ecc but only with a frontal image of the cards)

That would be better in my opinion!

Sorry for my English hope you will understand the sense of my post!
Ty and best rgs,
Christian

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dragsamou
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Post by dragsamou » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:47 am

Hi All

I have a technical question regarding those Beta A.P.. It was mentioned that:
"Also, please note, this was cut from a sheet that was rolled up, so the card has some warping to it. I'm pretty sure you can flatten it out if you try, but can't guarantee that."

Can they be flatten it out in a perfect way, that the curve doesn't show at all after, cause from pics that I saw, it's really not the case ?
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box1985
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Post by box1985 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:08 pm

dragsamou wrote:Hi All

I have a technical question regarding those Beta A.P.. It was mentioned that:
"Also, please note, this was cut from a sheet that was rolled up, so the card has some warping to it. I'm pretty sure you can flatten it out if you try, but can't guarantee that."

Can they be flatten it out in a perfect way, that the curve doesn't show at all after, cause from pics that I saw, it's really not the case ?
I think that the owner of Volcanic Island doesn't be able to flatten IT out :-P
i didn't receive yet my A.P :-k don't know but i'm curious too..!

BreakingRalter
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Post by BreakingRalter » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:57 pm

Mine have been flattening for several days and still show a very noticeable curve. If I manage to eliminate it entirely I will post pics.

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Post by AbsolutAlphas » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:03 pm

For the most part, I'd say this whole thing was fine. But there were two things that were done that were dishonest.

1) They should not have been listed as Artist Proofs. They are not artist proofs. Period. That was dishonest.

2) Specifically with the Black Lotus, it was intentionally miscut to match how real CE and APs were miscut. To me this was a clear indicator that the seller wanted these cards to be attractive to people that wanted to slip these cards into the real AP market.

Those two things were clearly unethical. Otherwise, the auctions were fine by me.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:51 pm

Hate to sound scornful but IMO anyone that cuts up a sheet of anything and tries to market them as APs is a shyster and a dirtball. I will never deal with this person on line or face to face and if he ever wants anything I have he is SOL.
I don't care what a person puts in the "fine print" when their announcement is a bold face lie.

Alexis? Do you have a list of "never on this web site" names? If you do I request you put this guy on it.

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