Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

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AlcesAlces
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Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by AlcesAlces » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:42 pm

I was going through some old cards and I noticed differences in the layout among the Italian whited bordered cards. Most are like the Scryb Sprites and two have a centre-aligned text box like the Llanowar Elves. The War Mammoth is the only one with the darker copyright line and the shifted and larger power/toughness. It also has the forest symbol used in Mirage rather than the original symbol found on the other cards. All of the cards have a 1995 copyright date.

I have a small sample size (only 8 cards) so I'm not sure which layout is most common. I was wondering what is the reason for these differences? Did they intentionally do different print runs? I'm sure theres a simple and obvious explanation but it's been bugging me so any information is appreciated!

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cataclysm80
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Re: Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:43 pm

It's a good question, and one that I'm still working on answering. I have part of the answer though.
Thanks for providing a picture, it helps!

First of all, Yes, I agree that all 3 of those cards you pictured are from the same set.
There is no doubt with the Scryb Sprites & Llanowar Elves.
The War Mammoth is more difficult to identify. Italian Second Edition & Italian 4th Edition both have a 1995 copyright, so some cards are harder to tell apart. I've checked though, and the Italian 4th Edition War Mammoth uses a much smaller font in the text box. Your War Mammoth is Italian Second Edition, just like your Scryb Sprites & Llanowar Elves.

I am interested in your War Mammoth. (I might even ask to purchase it in the future.) Can you tell me where it came from? Do you know if it was opened in a booster pack or starter deck for example? Having this info would be helpful towards solving the mystery.

Yes, some Italian Second Edition cards have a bolder copyright line, while other cards do not.
I hadn't noticed the Power/Toughness difference before, but from other cards I can look at, this and the copyright line both seem to be unrelated to the mana symbol difference that you've pointed out.

In addition to the mana symbol difference that you pointed out, there is also a slightly different font used for the card name. You won't be able to see it on your card because only some of the letters are different. i & j
The mana symbol and card name font changes do go together.

Italian Second Edition had more than one print run. On the first print run, some of the green cards had dark colored text boxes which made the lettering difficult to read.
These cards had the dark text box issue fixed for the second print run, and the card name font & mana symbols were updated on the fixed cards.

Your War Mammoth is a fixed version from the second print run.
I think the Scryb Sprites & Llanowar Elves did not need fixed, so both print runs look the same and yours could be from either run.

The copyright line & power toughness doesn't appear to have changed between print runs, it's the same on both, so that's a different issue.

Here's some pics.
1st print run on the left, 2nd print run in the middle, 4th Edition on the right.
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mmgun
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Re: Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by mmgun » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:31 pm

Wow, such an obvious difference, and nobody spotted it earlier.
I doublechecked all italian 3rd WB Creatures and can confirm, it affects only the creatures already listed here ( with bold copyright/shifted copyright):

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9126&hilit=bold+copyright
Last edited by mmgun on Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AlcesAlces
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Re: Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by AlcesAlces » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:34 pm

That's great information. The multiple print runs and fixing of errors explains the differences perfectly. Is there a reason that some of the cards have the text box centre aligned and others are left aligned? I looked at some other sets and English Arabian Nights has cards with different text box alignment as well, but Ice Age onwards looked pretty standard.

As for the War Mammoth, unfortunately I have no idea where it came from originally. I got it from a friend when he quit Magic back in 2002. All 8 of the Italian cards I have came in that lot, but I don't know if they came from the same pack or multiples. I tracked the guy down and asked, but he didn't remember where they came from. Of the 8 I have 6 Are common and 2 are rare, so they did not come from a single booster at least.

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mmgun
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Re: Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by mmgun » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:01 pm

I got some artist proofs from Anson maddocks Lure and Onulet from italian 3rd WB
We checked his whole stock, he just has one version of Lure Proof ( Bold Copyright, dark color, "i" with slash)
There is no "i" with dot version for artist proofs, just for regular print.

cataclysm80
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Re: Differences in white bordered Italian layout?

Post by cataclysm80 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:43 am


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