Any idea how this was created?

Questions about Magic items and events.

Moderators: cataclysm80, Apocalypse2K, berkumps, dragsamou, mystical_tutor, pp, hammr7, l0qii

ouallada
Librarities Legend
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:51 am

Any idea how this was created?

Post by ouallada » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:08 pm

Axios/Nico posted this elsewhere, and perhaps someone here knows better than either of us does.

Image

I thought it was a smudge due to wet printing plates + a double print, but I wonder if it could have been a proxy placed over the island and both were subjected to thinner or some other solution that dispersed the ink. It doesn't look like it has water damage, from what I can see.

Any thoughts?[/img]

User avatar
AXIOS
Legendary Fungusaur Collector
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Post by AXIOS » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:27 pm

hi guys...i finally found my log in back so mi happy :D

please let us know what to think of it and how it could have been created. the "double printed" letters are NOT in mirror writing so it couldn't have been a card stuck face front to it which "leaked" through
Fungusaur legend
find me on facebook: nico jongsma
into all kind of fungusaurs and bog wraiths, especially foreign, misprinted

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5665
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Post by dragsamou » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:23 am

AXIOS wrote:hi guys...i finally found my log in back so mi happy :D

please let us know what to think of it and how it could have been created. the "double printed" letters are NOT in mirror writing so it couldn't have been a card stuck face front to it which "leaked" through
Hi Axios

Welcome Back :) definately an ink smudge problem on one part. Did you try to find out what the double printed text is from?
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

ouallada
Librarities Legend
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:51 am

Post by ouallada » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:33 am

We are waiting on a higher res scan from him to see if we can guess at the words. Strange that I have not seen any similar misprint. Ink smudges should not be confined to a single card on a sheet.

User avatar
AXIOS
Legendary Fungusaur Collector
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Post by AXIOS » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:12 pm

I'm trying to get higher res scans tonite
Fungusaur legend
find me on facebook: nico jongsma
into all kind of fungusaurs and bog wraiths, especially foreign, misprinted

hammr7
Librarities Legend
Posts: 698
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Southern New Jersey

Post by hammr7 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:46 pm

Given the overprint, it has to be some sort of double print.

Heavy ink is not unusual. Ink is applied to cards in a multi-stage process.

1. The ink is applied to an embossed roll or plate. To ensure complete coverage, the ink is usually flooded over the surface.

2. Excess ink is removed, typically using a thin metal strip which is angled and in contact with the embossed roll or plate.

2.a If a roll is used, the roll rotates into a pan of ink and the "scraper" is attached just above the ink level. Excess ink is scraped off as the ink-covered roll emerges from the ink pan, allowing the excess ink to flow back into the pan.

2.b If a plate is used, the scraper usually forces ink into the embossed structures and wipes away excess in one single process.

3. Once the roll or plate has the proper amount of ink, it is brought in contact with the card stock, transferring the ink to the card stock.

Many of the scrape-like ink misprints you see occur when the scraper gets a bit of solids trapped. Think of streaks in your windshield wipers. When a color disappears it usually means that the ink supply ran out. When you get a dark ink coating over everything, like in this card, it usually means a scraper had to be removed for cleaning or replacement. You don't want ink to dry on the roll or plate, so you may run card stock through the process while the scraper is being worked on. Another type error, where it looks like the ink was heavily diluted (sometimes looking like a scrub mark) occurs when a roll or plate is washed in a solvent blend to get rid of a localized dry spot.

Anyway, this card was definitely printed a first time, since you can see printing underneath. It may have gone through all the print stages or just a few. remember that there are at least 5 print stages (black, the three primary colors, and a gloss/wear coat). It may have been used for multiple setup processes as well. How it was produced is no where near as interesting as how it got out of the factory, since these kinds of cards are all supposed to be scrapped.

There are literally tens of thousands of these cards produced in making the hundreds of millions of Magic cards. But the scrap and setup sheets, and any cards derived from them, aren't supposed to leave the factory. Given the quality control that Carta Mundi has exhibited over the years, my belief is that most of these kinds of error cards did not go out with new product.

ouallada
Librarities Legend
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:51 am

Post by ouallada » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:52 pm

=D>

User avatar
l0qii
Legendary Unfindable Title Moderator
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:56 am
Location: PA
Contact:

Post by l0qii » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:58 pm

If we assume that this is from a scrap sheet, can we also assume that it is hand cut?

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5665
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Post by dragsamou » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:00 pm

=D>
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

ouallada
Librarities Legend
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:51 am

Post by ouallada » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Isn't it far more likely that it got erroneously placed into product than it being handcut? Not that it looks handcut in any case. I suppose a scrap sheet could have been cut and some individual pieces removed as well.

User avatar
l0qii
Legendary Unfindable Title Moderator
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:56 am
Location: PA
Contact:

Post by l0qii » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:47 pm

Also, what was quality control like in 1997? This is a Tempest card.

Neuron
Legendary Print Variant Explorer
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:57 am

Post by Neuron » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:10 pm

The smudge print letters look Asian for the big spaces between them.

User avatar
AXIOS
Legendary Fungusaur Collector
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Post by AXIOS » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:04 am

Its definately not handcut and not asian. High res scan not available until to tonight due to xircumstances. You can see clearly the word artifact on the card.
Fungusaur legend
find me on facebook: nico jongsma
into all kind of fungusaurs and bog wraiths, especially foreign, misprinted

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5665
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Post by dragsamou » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:06 am

AXIOS wrote: You can see clearly the word artifact on the card.
I guess , I need another coffee then cause I don't from that scan :-D
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

User avatar
l0qii
Legendary Unfindable Title Moderator
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:56 am
Location: PA
Contact:

Post by l0qii » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:31 am

Couldn't sleep tonight, so I broke out Photoshop and started playing.

I tried my best to eliminate the Island from the image, but without good scan it was difficult to do. The perspective and especially the glare made it difficult. Below is best I could manage.

Observations:
The other card is skewed down and to the left of where it should be.
The word Artifact is clear.
Unfortunately there is no card name visible, where the card name should be.
There are 4 lines of text. The 4th line is short.
I'm pretty sure the one blotch is a tap symbol.

Image

Conclusion:
I looked through every artifact in Tempest, as well as Exodus and Stronghold (in case this came from a precon), and there are no cards that match this text layout exactly. However, the card could be French (Artefact).

3 possibilities:
It's not from Tempest block
It's French (and all my words are wrong)
It's an English artifact with text that was changed before the final print

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests