Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:28 pm
Maybe I am missing something, but that sounds a lot like summer.
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http://forum.magiclibrarities.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9106
Just a very old but very helpful link from the pastouallada wrote:Maybe I am missing something, but that sounds a lot like summer.
That is a reference to Summer. Back then it was called Edgar. 120 Million cards is NOT a test print!dragsamou wrote:
4th edition test print
----------------------
There was apparently a printing of cards in late summer 1994 which
was intended to be 4th edition (back when it was going to be
released in September 1994) which had borders and colors similar to
(but not identical to) the now-released 4th edition. This was known
to have the following features:
* misprinted Hurricane with BLUE borders
* correctly printed Serendib Efreet
* 1994 copyright date, probably like Legends and Dark copyrights
Tom Wylie just said this was a test print, and the cards were
intended to be destroyed, but some were released accidentally.
However (according to Eric Aldrich) at ConQuest in November, Richard
Garfield spoke about this printing; this was intended to be the real
4th edition. Due to typos and other errors, like the Hurricane, the
printing was stopped and 120 million cards were destroyed -- but
apparently not all of them. This was probably part of the reason for
the shortage of Revised cards that occurred in December 1994 -- almost
two months of printing (at that time) was wasted.
I will not attempt to note the changes for these cards on my list,
but if anybody has any of them, let me know and maybe I can assemble
a separate list. I particularly would like to know of any other
misprints in the test print, and cards in the test print that were
NOT in revised.
Yes, the older sets including Revised, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and even the Harper Prism Book Promo cards have the textbox with the "chinks" on the black cards. Note, Summer (as shown here on librarities) ALSO uses the textbox with the "chinks". The textless test prints and the "test printing" test prints do not have the "chinks" This suggests that neither of them were a test print for Summer, since Summer does have the "chinks".ouallada wrote: Note the textboxes (on black cards), and that outside of colouring, the Revised textbox differs in its design. This is most obvious with the chinks at the bottom and left of the textbox.
From the very few info provided (They came from an old WOTC employee that get them from an Art Director cleaning his desk, when Hasbro bought WOTC), No , it's not the same. Buying cards, Test Prints, etc...It's a very easy task, getting the complete info that goes with it, is way more hard. If I will be the owner of those Test Prints, I will try to get the name of the Art Director, try to contact him, so he can provide as much info on those Also, my point is about history of those Test Prints, but let's not forget the financial part, with the huge inflation on any Rarities, Misprints, etc...Saying that they are for example 4Th Edition Test Print will not have the same impact as if you say that they are Summer Test Prints. I try my best to get in touch with people that back in the days were involved with those Test Prints projects, Long time Collectors that own Test Prints, etc...But it will take time to get replies, but slowly but surely, we will get some answers.cataclysm80 wrote:Is the card stock on the textless test prints the same as the "test printing" & German/French test prints?
See, I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying about the textbox design. A design facet on a test print which isn't in the final product is not evidence enough of the former not being related to the latter. Otherwise, we won't be calling the UNL/Rev test prints as such, as the grey borders never happened. Same for the 8e/Jud ones. That said, if you read through my OP, it's via induction that the textless ones are placed where they are -- as summer test prints. They can easily be 4th ed test prints, but that is HIGHLY unlikely because 4th ed was created to fix the problems with summer, chief among which was the overly dark colour. It's simply the best possible fit.cataclysm80 wrote:Yes, the older sets including Revised, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and even the Harper Prism Book Promo cards have the textbox with the "chinks" on the black cards. Note, Summer (as shown here on librarities) ALSO uses the textbox with the "chinks". The textless test prints and the "test printing" test prints do not have the "chinks" This suggests that neither of them were a test print for Summer, since Summer does have the "chinks".ouallada wrote: Note the textboxes (on black cards), and that outside of colouring, the Revised textbox differs in its design. This is most obvious with the chinks at the bottom and left of the textbox.
Foreign Black Border Italian does NOT have the "chinks". Foreign Black Border was released before 4th Edition. Foreign Black Border seems to be the earliest set that did not have the "chinks"
I agree that the color of the textless test prints is similar to Summer. Would they do a white border test print for a black border set? I wouldn't think so, but I don't really know. What do you guys think? It would make sense to fix the too dark color of Summer before printing more cards, but there were a LOT of cards printed between Summer and German black border (see below). Foreign white border 3rd Edition or English 4th Edition would be the first white border candidates for the textless test prints since neither of those sets have the "chinks", but by that point there would be little need for color correction.
Is the card stock on the textless test prints the same as the "test printing" & German/French test prints? Possibly the testless & "test printing" test prints are two different test print runs for the same set, the text being added so as not to mix them up?
Back to the German/French test prints. They also don't have the "chinks" on the text box of the black cards, but I'm more interested in the size of the copyright date as a reference for where to place them in the printing timeline.
Tav
Trust me, we realise that, but it isn't as straightforward as you might imagine. Some of us have spoken to him, and there are difficulties there. Additionally, you must realise that if within the community here, where most of the large collectors are, we can't even agree on terminology, and where we are even debating summer as a test print, we need to take terms given with pinches of salt as well.From the very few info provided (They came from an old WOTC employee that get them from an Art Director cleaning his desk, when Hasbro bought WOTC), No , it's not the same. Buying cards, Test Prints, etc...It's a very easy task, getting the complete info that goes with it, is way more hard. If I will be the owner of those Test Prints, I will try to get the name of the Art Director, try to contact him, so he can provide as much info on those
Why you call those UNL/Rev ?ouallada wrote:
See, I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying about the textbox design. A design facet on a test print which isn't in the final product is not evidence enough of the former not being related to the latter. Otherwise, we won't be calling the UNL/Rev test prints as such, as the grey borders never happened.
No need to trust you, can you imagine when I was asking or calling MTG Shops at the very beginning, to find out if they was having any Misprints or Rarities, how many times, I did get "WTF you talk about", at least, I'm glad that few years after, I educate a bunch of them properly with others Members, and that suddenly Misprints and Rarities sections appeared in MTG shops :) I have spent as well thousand of hours to find info, as others Members, about Test Prints, Tokens, etc...Covered on this website. So I do know, how hard it is to collect precised and verified info :)ouallada wrote:
Trust me, we realise that, but it isn't as straightforward as you might imagine. Some of us have spoken to him, and there are difficulties there. Additionally, you must realise that if within the community here, where most of the large collectors are, we can't even agree on terminology, and where we are even debating summer as a test print, we need to take terms given with pinches of salt as well.
To be clear also, I didn't point any fingers at anyone, just mentioning on a general level, that MTG has become a Huge business, and when it comes to Misprints or else, prices have skyrocketed. Also, now, a Lot of people owning a very slight miscut or else, believe that they have found the goose that lays the golden egg(s), this is indeed reality :)ouallada wrote:
And just so we are clear, I only own some test printing cards and the french/german cards, not the textless ones. I couldn't care less if being 4th ed test prints affects their value. Whatever is in the OP is done with complete fairness in mind.
Sure, I circled them in this picture. They are on the Revised card, but not on the 4th or either test print. They are darker shaded areas around the edge of the textbox. Called chinks because they give the illusion that part of the edge of the textbox is damaged. The "chinks" are on all of the black cards up until they stopped using them, which I believe was an effort to clean up the text box.dragsamou wrote:Hi Tav
Very interesting post, can you specify precisely what you mean by "Chinks"
The Waldfeen in that picture is from 4th. I need to see the one from German white border 3rd. The flying ability for the one I'm looking for should read as "Fliegen".
Hi Tavcataclysm80 wrote:The Waldfeen in that picture is from 4th. I need to see the one from German white border 3rd. The flying ability for the one I'm looking for should read as "Fliegen".
I have the 4th black border Japanese & T-Chinese (and Spanish), but lets start by comparing to German cards since the test print is in German.
Tav