My current project...

[ende73]

chaosdjinn

i believe you just crossed the line between fair use and trademark infringement.

Ehm, hadn't I also posted about this ?!

[ende73]

Ok, now I got it:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=5456

As usual I am in total disagreement with you.

I am not reporting some random unknown seller putting up fake or funny cards here.

I am pointing out that a member asked us to supply him with free Asian cards to go through with a project, which is amusing while it's done for personal use, but in my opinion (and Mahdishain's, for the moment) totally unacceptable if performed as a total violation of legal copyright terms for personal profit.


However, I see this website's owner feels it's urgent to censor me about putting a (totally relevant) EBAY link and locks that topic, whereas he considers it totally fair for a member to ask for cards from other members to go through with an illegal and unethical project for an easy personal profit.

I'll give some thought to your invitation to walk away from these boards.

[dragsamou]

Ok, now I got it:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=5456

As usual I am in total disagreement with you.

I am not reporting some random unknown seller putting up fake or funny cards here.

I am pointing out that a member asked us to supply him with free Asian cards to go through with a project, which is amusing while it's done for personal use, but in my opinion (and Mahdishain's, for the moment) totally unacceptable if performed as a total violation of legal copyright terms for personal profit.


However, I see this website's owner feels it's urgent to censor me about putting a (totally relevant) EBAY link and locks that topic, whereas he considers it totally fair for a member to ask for cards from other members to go through with an illegal and unethical project for an easy personal profit.

I'll give some thought to your invitation to walk away from these boards.

Hi Enrico.
I make it very simple.First I did not censor anything,but adding Any Ebay links or MTG commercial website needs to be done in the proper section,that's why I moove it there.Now,Chaosdjinn project as long as it was for himself was fine,at the moment,he uses this website for personal profit and do illegal stuff,for sure I'm pissed.Believe it or not,but I do not fuck around with Any Laws from Any countries and Any Companies.

[ende73]

Ok, now I got it:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=5456

As usual I am in total disagreement with you.

I am not reporting some random unknown seller putting up fake or funny cards here.

I am pointing out that a member asked us to supply him with free Asian cards to go through with a project, which is amusing while it's done for personal use, but in my opinion (and Mahdishain's, for the moment) totally unacceptable if performed as a total violation of legal copyright terms for personal profit.


However, I see this website's owner feels it's urgent to censor me about putting a (totally relevant) EBAY link and locks that topic, whereas he considers it totally fair for a member to ask for cards from other members to go through with an illegal and unethical project for an easy personal profit.

I'll give some thought to your invitation to walk away from these boards.

Hi Enrico.
I make it very simple.First I did not censor anything,but adding Any Ebay links or MTG commercial website needs to be done in the proper section,that's why I moove it there.Now,Chaosdjinn project as long as it was for himself was fine,at the moment,he uses this website for personal profit and do illegal stuff,for sure I'm pissed.Believe it or not,but I do not fuck around with Any Laws from Any countries and Any Companies.

Ok Alexis, fair enough.

I'm glad you made it crystal clear that Chaosdjinn's conduct cannot be tolerated here, as I had mistakenly taken your (momentary) silence on the point as an implicit acceptance of it. I'm relieved of your comment on this point.

Regarding my post, I did infringe the rule on linking to Ebay outside of the appropriate section, but that's because I felt it necessary to bring members' attention to the point quickly and effectively. I consider(ed) the link totally relevant to this thread.

That said maybe I should have posted (and I'll do it now since people might find following this thread difficult at this point):

"Members, please note that Chaosdjinn is offering his modified cards at a huge price - obviously far greater than mere production costs - on a primary commercial website, attempting to make an easy profit out of any donations or small sales of Asian cards you might have made to him in good faith, and also undertaking a questionable practice from a legal point of view".


I was also hurt by your brief comment about lacking respect. We often (I wrongfully stated always before) have different opinions, like on the Ebay- Auction sites debate a few weeks ago.

But I also feel I have always respected you and your hard work here, as I posted in the context of that very debate, and my Ebay-linking-rule infringement was done for the reasons stated above, certainly not out of a purposeful lack of resepect.

Anyway, I'm happy we talked publicly to clear things up.

[pickle.69]

did anybody ship cards to him for free?

[dragsamou]

Anyway, I'm happy we talked publicly to clear things up.

Hi Enrico.
You have read my PM,and replied so I know that everything's totally fine between us on that particular issue

[chaosdjinn]

Ok, now I got it:

http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=5456

As usual I am in total disagreement with you.

I am not reporting some random unknown seller putting up fake or funny cards here.

I am pointing out that a member asked us to supply him with free Asian cards to go through with a project, which is amusing while it's done for personal use, but in my opinion (and Mahdishain's, for the moment) totally unacceptable if performed as a total violation of legal copyright terms for personal profit.


However, I see this website's owner feels it's urgent to censor me about putting a (totally relevant) EBAY link and locks that topic, whereas he considers it totally fair for a member to ask for cards from other members to go through with an illegal and unethical project for an easy personal profit.

I'll give some thought to your invitation to walk away from these boards.

I ended the auction and rescind any offers to anyone on these boards.

My goal was not to piss anyone off, nor tarnish my reputation, but it seems I have done both. Rather, I wanted to make people happy by having access to all the older cards for the purpose of fun. Please accept my humble apologies for any slights you may have perceived.

[magic-belgium]

I found it quite odd that it was so urgent to supply cards for a project that was not defined.

I never understood why some people publish (even in magazines) adds to ask players/collectors for donations.

It's quite easy to have access to cheap MTG (you can buy thousands for a couple of $/€).

[chaosdjinn]

I found it quite odd that it was so urgent to supply cards for a project that was not defined.

I never understood why some people publish (even in magazines) adds to ask players/collectors for donations.

It's quite easy to have access to cheap MTG (you can buy thousands for a couple of $/€).

The urgency was based on my having 'perfected' the art on the sticker for the different frames. For the record, I never asked for donations and paid for all the cards that were sent to me.

[ende73]

I ended the auction and rescind any offers to anyone on these boards.

My goal was not to piss anyone off, nor tarnish my reputation, but it seems I have done both. Rather, I wanted to make people happy by having access to all the older cards for the purpose of fun. Please accept my humble apologies for any slights you may have perceived.

Since I have heavily contributed to this thread, I feel I should just post another quick thought.

I appreciate Chaosdjinn's post here. I still think what he did is wrong obviously (but then we all make mistakes, myself included), but it's truly becoming a rare virtue to see people acknowledge their errors and attempt to apologize and make good for it, and I think this should also be noted.

More specifically, I do like this Asian-pimping project (many members posted enthusiastic comments explicitly) and I believe you could make many people happy by offering these modified cards at "pure cost + shipping" prices or trading them for your regular MTG needs or even small rarities.

I believe what offended us and made you "cross the line" (as Mahdishain put it) is the attempt to make a huge monetary profit out of the idea.

[chaosdjinn]

I ended the auction and rescind any offers to anyone on these boards.

My goal was not to piss anyone off, nor tarnish my reputation, but it seems I have done both. Rather, I wanted to make people happy by having access to all the older cards for the purpose of fun. Please accept my humble apologies for any slights you may have perceived.

Since I have heavily contributed to this thread, I feel I should just post another quick thought.

I appreciate Chaosdjinn's post here. I still think what he did is wrong obviously (but then we all make mistakes, myself included), but it's truly becoming a rare virtue to see people acknowledge their errors and attempt to apologize and make good for it, and I think this should also be noted.

More specifically, I do like this Asian-pimping project (many members posted enthusiastic comments explicitly) and I believe you could make many people happy by offering these modified cards at "pure cost + shipping" prices or trading them for your regular MTG needs or even small rarities.

I believe what offended us and made you "cross the line" (as Mahdishain put it) is the attempt to make a huge monetary profit out of the idea.

I came up with the 99.99 for the starting price based on cards I had to buy off from Auction Site(please check out my past auctions won for reference), and the time and energy to make 45 cards look perfect(it isn't easy, please try it to see). I thought of 49.99 as the starting price but it honestly wasn't worth my time.

However, that is all water under the bridge. Thank you for acknowledging my efforts to make this right.

When push comes to shove, all a man has is his integrity. I have been a member of these boards since they first opened under Bob and would not want this to question my character. I awoke very early the other night, saw the reaction from members here, pulled the auction, and later rescinded a potential deal with a member here.

I guess the old aphorism 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions,' is very accurate for this dilemma. I thought I was going to be doing someone a favor by proxifying- but I won't do it at the expense of my integrity.
Peace,
<Matt

[Grapes17]

I don't quite understand all the hate. I know that is behind now, but I think it was obvious that he wasn't trying to make a fortune (at $2.23 a card, I hardly see that as unreasonable). But oh well. I still think the idea is quite a cool one, which soon I shall try for myself (I have plenty of bad foreign cards and nothing to do with them). Thanks Chaosdjinn!

[mahdishain]

I don't quite understand all the hate. I know that is behind now, but I think it was obvious that he wasn't trying to make a fortune (at $2.23 a card, I hardly see that as unreasonable). But oh well. I still think the idea is quite a cool one, which soon I shall try for myself (I have plenty of bad foreign cards and nothing to do with them). Thanks Chaosdjinn!

i don't think hate is the right word. the problem is that chaosdjinn has no right to make any money at all in this manner. as long as he was making them for his own enjoyment he could argue his usage of wotc's property was allowable under fair use provision of trademark and copyright law. as soon as he attempted to sell his alterations without wotc's permission he was violating the law.

[Grapes17]

I don't quite understand all the hate. I know that is behind now, but I think it was obvious that he wasn't trying to make a fortune (at $2.23 a card, I hardly see that as unreasonable). But oh well. I still think the idea is quite a cool one, which soon I shall try for myself (I have plenty of bad foreign cards and nothing to do with them). Thanks Chaosdjinn!

i don't think hate is the right word. the problem is that chaosdjinn has no right to make any money at all in this manner. as long as he was making them for his own enjoyment he could argue his usage of wotc's property was allowable under fair use provision of trademark and copyright law. as soon as he attempted to sell his alterations without wotc's permission he was violating the law.

Hmmm... I see your point...

[magic-belgium]

I haven't seen these cards so far, I'd like to see them whenever possible.

I guess introducing the project with the final goal expected would have been better, maybe some here (including me) would have bought these cards or would have contributed.

Sometimes fast cash is not the best way to act...