Topic: FTV: Relics Sealed- $85 Shipped

Personal offers and search inquiries about promotional, misprinted, and unofficial Magic items.

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magic-belgium
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Post by magic-belgium » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:24 am

Once again, I would like to add my 2 cts about FTV...

In Europe, wholesalers who do not have organized play, do not get ANY FTV...

So this time, there was NO WAY I could get any FTV. Now, in Europe, you can't get it below 100 Euros.

You can't buy it on Ebay US because sellers can't sell it outside the US...

So ?

I refuse to pay 100 Euros for one, because I need 2. One for display and one for the cards in a binder. And to me, the price will not go higher in the future.

There are still tons of past FTV one and 2 years after release...

Something is wrong with this product. And he who makes the selling policy of this product is completely stupid and should go back to University learning Marketing basics if he ever thought he is smart.

FTV is utter b******t.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:21 pm

magic-belgium wrote:You can't buy it on Ebay US because sellers can't sell it outside the US...
I was of the impression that "Dealers" could not sell outside the US. Sellers on "you know where" who are not authorized WotC dealers can probably sell anywhere they want to. I noticed one listing that stated WW shipping.
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Post by l0qii » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:28 pm

mystical_tutor wrote:
magic-belgium wrote:You can't buy it on Ebay US because sellers can't sell it outside the US...
I was of the impression that "Dealers" could not sell outside the US. Sellers on "you know where" who are not authorized WotC dealers can probably sell anywhere they want to. I noticed one listing that stated WW shipping.
I think his point is that the only sellers who would be willing to sell at MSRP are dealers, and therefore can't sell to him, so he has no choice but to pay jacked up aftermarket prices.

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:12 am

l0qii wrote:I think his point is that the only sellers who would be willing to sell at MSRP are dealers, and therefore can't sell to him, so he has no choice but to pay jacked up aftermarket prices.
Ah, OK, now that I re-read it with your insignt I see what you mean. Yes, as a matter of fact he is correct in that but needs to add that we in the US are faced with the same thing at our local dealers--many of which are already offering these at aftermarket jacked up prices.

Really burns me but I undersand it.

Gary

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Post by willard507 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:57 pm

My local card shop was/is trying to sell FTV: relics for 125$ the day it came out. I have a feeling that finding one anywhere, even in the United States, for MSRP is a rare find.

I agree with magic-belgium "FTV is utter b******t."
I'm looking for odd/rare Mind Twists.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:42 am

willard507 wrote:I agree with magic-belgium "FTV is utter b******t."
I have no idea what either of you mean by this. It is such a nebulous comment.

My take is that the demand has proven that they have turned out a great marketing item. Sure Hasbro gets only a little profit on them compared to the scalpers but, the bottom line is, it still adds to the bottom line--which is all the Hasbro stockholders are interested in.

A business that doesn't develop items that sell, doesn't stay in business.

What, pray tell, about it is BS??? (sounds to me like sour grapes).
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Post by willard507 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:04 am

Of course its sour grapes to some extent. I suppose that if I had gotten 3 at MSRP I would be very happy that the price had skyrocketed, but I didn't even have a chance too.
I guess the system of how FTV is released is whats BS. If this product was released to retailers who don't also sell on the secondary market( i.e. walmart or target) then the average magic player/collector would have a chance to get this product at MSRP. What if the NFL only sold super bowl tickets directly to scalpers/stubhub? This is what happens with FTV basically.
mystical_tutor wrote: A business that doesn't develop items that sell, doesn't stay in business.

I agree with this and it seems that Hasbro's better served by either raising the MSRP or by printing more of the product. How is Hasbro served by selling a product that they make so little of the actual cost paid by the consumer? If player X has 100$ to spend on magic Hasbro gets a lot less if player X spends that money on FTV at the jacked up price then if they spend that 100$ buying product for its actual MSRP. The amount of money the average player/collector has is limited and a smart business plan is to get as large a portion of that as possible. FTV actually puts more of that limited resource into the retailers they choose to release the product through. If the intention of FTV was to pump money into those retailers then mission accomplished.

But basically, yeah sour grapes.
I'm looking for odd/rare Mind Twists.

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Post by magic-belgium » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:30 am

Most of the copies are resold by people who have direct access to it.

I know several (young) guys who bought some, and resold them immediately for a profit.

So, FTV is created also to enable some pocket money to young guys (or girls) who do not care less about FTV.

Many boxes are also opened to sell singles or playsets...

I'm sure if they printed twice as more, the price would raise, but not that fast.

Have any of you experienced the release of the Collector's Box and International Collector's Box when it was $49,95 ? They're now close to $1000. Could you buy it at $49,95 back then ?

Now, speculation is linked to quick cash profit. Time seems to have no influence on the value of FTV. But as pointed out by several people : what MTG products released by Hasbro raise in value over time lately ?

There's another aspect of collectability in this product : some people (and someone pointed it out here) buy it because they expect it to raise in price in the future. Is that all what the product is worth ? Such a shame...

I'm a real lover of MTG, enjoying every part of my collection, except FTV. The product is definitely gorgeous, but it is sour to me...

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Post by yawg07 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:42 am

The local shop has one for $75 USD, Patrick.
If you are interested, I could get it. But you will for a fact, not find any at MSRP. :(

I got one for MSRP at the pre-release thing at Gencon and chucked it for like 2.5 times what I payed.
Then I bought one for $50 when they came out. Opened it, kept what I wanted, sold the rest.

They really should release them worldwide. But they like keeping the #s down. :/

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magic-belgium
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Post by magic-belgium » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:59 pm

Actually I need 3 of them. 2 for me (one for the cards to put in a binder, one for the unopened box) and one for a friend who can not afford to pay $130 for it.

I'd be willing to pay $75 each and combined shipping. This is a reasonable price on Ebay right now.

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Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:35 pm

willard507 wrote:Of course its sour grapes to some extent. I suppose that if I had gotten 3 at MSRP I would be very happy that the price had skyrocketed, but I didn't even have a chance too.


Thanks for being straight forward about that.
willard507 wrote:I guess the system of how FTV is released is whats BS. If this product was released to retailers who don't also sell on the secondary market( i.e. walmart or target) then the average magic player/collector would have a chance to get this product at MSRP.

Well, you pushed a button there. I detest selling the product through mass marketers. They cut rate them, offer no support for the product and worst of all provide no gaming locations for players. It is just WRONG for people to buy cutrate products then expect to go to your local game store, enjoy an evening of fun playing in a well lighted, comfortable location that accomidates you and your friends, collect your Gateway or FNM promo cards and slip out to your car to eat and drink the stuff you brought with you while the store owner is trying hard to make ends meet.
willard507 wrote:What if the NFL only sold super bowl tickets directly to scalpers/stubhub? This is what happens with FTV basically.
I won’t come out and specifically call that BS but I will say that, for the reasons mentioned above, the analogy is missapplied. Mass markters are equated to stubhub—not your local player/dealer. [sorry a note of expostulation here—when I worked for WotC it was as a field rep. I visited all the magic dealers in Colorado, Kansas, and Utah plus some in Wyoming. There are scalper dealers also—include them with mass marketers. I’m talking about the hard working gaming stores that try to provide a place to play]

So it should all be done like the Sliver deck? How many payed a lot for them then had them drop to below market value ($21.00 on "you know where")?
Is that what you want?
willard507 wrote:If the intention of FTV was to pump money into those retailers then mission accomplished.
Ahhh, it is so sweet to see a light dawn.

Gary

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magic-belgium
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Post by magic-belgium » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:47 pm

Well, that is not a problem at all if the local dealers who organize play were the only ones to sell it at a decent price ($75 is OK with me, but then, I wouldn't have to pay for the shipping fees from the US).

But then, ALLOW THE LOCAL DEALERS TO PLACE PRE-ORDERS, even if an order had to be linked with a DCI number, and limit them to 2 per player.

That would be acceptable and fair !

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Post by mystical_tutor » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:55 pm

magic-belgium wrote:Well, that is not a problem at all if the local dealers who organize play were the only ones to sell it at a decent price ($75 is OK with me, but then, I wouldn't have to pay for the shipping fees from the US).

But then, ALLOW THE LOCAL DEALERS TO PLACE PRE-ORDERS, even if an order had to be linked with a DCI number, and limit them to 2 per player.

That would be acceptable and fair !
Have you sent your suggestion/concerns to WotC?
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Post by magic-belgium » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:02 am

Hasbro does not care about the customers/players anymore. So, it is not necessary to tell them what to do... FTV is peanuts compared to the tons of cards they wish to sell now.

Hasbro is not at all concerned about the collectors, because the Core Business (so I've been told from WotC sources) of MTG is Walmart now ! The volume of cards sold in Walmart is huge compared to local stores / regular players... They now want casual players who will buy more cards. Pro players are not interesting anymore either.

When I have some time, I will tell you what happen in Grand Prix and Pro Tour Side Events now, thanks to Jason Howlett Public Event Manager. This is totally disgusting.

All of this will never stop me buying and playing, because MTG is more than cards to me, but I guess many others with smaller budgets could stop more easily...

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Post by willard507 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:05 am

mystical_tutor wrote:
willard507 wrote:If the intention of FTV was to pump money into those retailers then mission accomplished.
Ahhh, it is so sweet to see a light dawn.

Gary

If this was their intent why not Make the MSRP 75$ but still sell it to the store for whatever they do now giving the stores the same amount of profit maybe more and prevent people like me from crying about them jacking up the price?

I also apologize because I forget that lots of places have a local card shop that provides a nice place to play and they need help making money to stay in business. I can only dream.
I'm looking for odd/rare Mind Twists.

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