Prerelease promos--They are choking me.

Personal offers and search inquiries about promotional, misprinted, and unofficial Magic items.

Moderators: cataclysm80, Apocalypse2K, berkumps, dragsamou, mystical_tutor, pp, hammr7, l0qii

How do you feel about the number of promos with Khans of Tarkir

Poll ended at Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:06 pm

To many-loss of interest
20
100%
Just right-nice layout
0
No votes
Love it--give me more
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 20

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:53 pm

tap4black wrote:I feel for you Gary! This is exactly why I limited myself to just collecting the Alpha set as trying to do others would take all my time (and $$$$).
Yes, Len.

I am giving very serious consideration to where my personal collection will end.
After the foil helvault, last year SDCC and the dilution of meaningful prerelease
I am thinking 20 years is good enough--WotC didn't even celebrate the 20th year with a promo or a bash at GenCon. The word was they didn't want younger players to view it as an old foggy game. Yet they did feel the market was good for the FTV:20 that went through 20 cards year by year for the game.

Sigh.....

You are the wise one, ol buddy.
Gary Adkison
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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:12 pm

If anyone has a twitter account (I don't) they could post it to mark rosewater (maro?? something like that).

Gary
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Post by dragsamou » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:14 pm

mystical_tutor wrote:
I am giving very serious consideration to where my personal collection will end.
Hi Gary

I stopped mine in 2010, I can't thank enough someone that let me know in advance what the future will be for Collectors and especially for Promos Collectors like me that was collecting all the languages. So, 6/8 till 2010 is better than the 11 there's now. And the 540 Promos of Khans of Tarkir, was the best way to discourage Global Languages Promos collectors.
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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:29 pm

Well, I just bought up a bunch of old boosters. My friends and I can enjoy booster drafts at home and then that way this old fart won't taint the image of the game for those newer kids that I might scare off.

Strange, though, several of us old farts always seem to be the center of attention at the stores and never lacking for "fun" games to play. Of course those old cards don't contribute to the "bottom line", so we probably won't be missed by corporate.

Question is, though, when will the old farts at WotC get replaced and by whom?

We will just have to see.

Gary
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Post by chaosdjinn » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:30 pm

So I log on here with the intention to talk about the basket of prerelease promos and I see that I am not the only one trying to hash out this somewhat ridiculous prerelease promo thing.

It's getting to the point where promos, when released in mass trajectories with little regard by WOTC for what makes each card 'promotional,' become less regarded as a 'chase' product and more of a royal pain in the a$$ for even the most ardent ahderents to collecting.

WOTC, a company many of us have already agreed, really fails often at using logic behind many decisions they make when it comes the collectible patina of the game. Overwhelming a market with redundancy of product is sure to have one effect in the long run, a glut in supply and barely a whimper of demand for the diversity that has been produced. Not the best business practice as evidenced by many a business folly, but WOTC seems to be reducing what was once a special meaning attached to a card and has now distilled that meaning to the point of mere 'gimmick.'

When Squt (Mark Purvis) went to work for WOTC, I thought the pipeline for promo material would have a rational actor guiding the printing of promos so that there was a percept of value inherent in the chase and collectibility of the cards. If he reads this post, I hope he can review the current policies resulting in our experience of "2014- year of the promo glut" and return collectibility to being more of a special feature of the game that is attractive to ensuring this is a 'collectible card game' and not a game with several different versions of the same widgets meaninglessly interchangeable as moving parts; each version essentially diluting the meaning, and resultant value, of the other existing fabrications.



Redundancy for redundancy's sake is, well, quite redundant.

Let's hope we can end "2014- the year of the promo glut" sometime soon.

{Drops microphone, jumps off soapbox, and scurries back to his cave of lurking}
Last edited by chaosdjinn on Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:02 pm

I think, as has been alluded to, this block will probably repeat this insult to players in each of it's expansions. Then the two set blocks will come on the scene. It will be interesting to see if this proxy for good game design will exist in the next/last core set.

Your issue of redundancy has been bothering me for some time, however it seems that most of the truly redundant cards are bread and butter cards formerly supplied by the core sets--that will no longer be with us. Green destroy enchantment/artifact; red direct damage; blue counters, unblockables; white flyers/weenies/destroy-exile and black creature kill/grave robbing.

All good stuff, what Magic has always needed--and had and i love.

BUT, I think they have run out of material. So drop the core sets and include these staples in each block--sure give them some new game mechanic to spice up their use a bit--really not a bad approach to a setting that has finite possibilities and my hat off to them in hopes they can keep the roll going.

What i don't like though is the glut of product that is redundant--intro packs; battle boosters; event deck; boosters; deck building kit, all with the exact same cards in them. There is not a store I know of in this city that doesn't have these setting on their shelves for the last three-four expansions and once a block is rotated out these become decorations and with a very few exceptions, useless cards.

WotC does not have an easy task to keep things interesting and challenging but I really feel they are choking the goose that lays the golden egg. Nice bottom line now, but a threat to the future.

Just my .02

Gary
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Post by chaosdjinn » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:23 pm

Does anyone here collect different TD Bank pens?
Does anyone care that they come in different colors with different messages at different times of the year?

{crickets}

That's a resounding 'no.' Do you know why no one cares that they exist as different versions? Because they are ubiquitous and (relatively) free and each functions in relatively the same manner as all others- just as the current MTG promo situation is devolving down to.

When promo cards are diluted to gimmick status, with their function being the same, all it does is introduce into the market alternate ways of getting cards for their function, while reducing the collectible aspect related to their diverse forms (prerelease vs. out-of-pack). This serves to reduce the EV of packs upon opening, cheapens regular foil versions of the card, and introduces more copies into the mix that could suppress values across the board in light of demand. In the process, though touted as a 'special version,' the aesthetics of 'promotional' status are reduced to a mere sideline observer based on availability; producing 'just another' version of the card, whose existence cheapens all others.

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Post by Alien_Starfighter_Pilot » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:52 am

chaosdjinn wrote:Does anyone here collect different TD Bank pens?
Does anyone care that they come in different colors with different messages at different times of the year?
hmmm, probably a very cheap alternative for collecting. wonder what the market for misprints is ;)

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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:34 pm

chaosdjinn wrote: This serves to reduce the EV of packs upon opening, cheapens regular foil versions of the card, and introduces more copies into the mix that could suppress values across the board in light of demand. In the process, though touted as a 'special version,' the aesthetics of 'promotional' status are reduced to a mere sideline observer based on availability; producing 'just another' version of the card, whose existence cheapens all others.
I think you are over stating the value aspect. In reality none of the prerelease promo cards in recent history have been of much value, Promo, regular or regular foil. i may have missed some but it is easy to pick them up online and often they are cheaper than the regular foil version (which, of course is much more rare).
On the other hand if a card becomes a Standard or Modern "gotta have" the value goes over the top. I have oft wondered if the cards picked to be prerelease promos were chosen for their likelihood of never being important.

Just a muse of mine.

Gary
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Post by cataclysm80 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:36 pm

With the introduction of the language code at the bottom of every card, perhaps we no longer need scans of every card. We just need to confirm which languages exist and make a list.

We should have scans of all the promos in one language, and would only need scans of other language cards if there were something unique like alternate art in that language.

Tav

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Post by berkumps » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:34 pm

cataclysm80 wrote:With the introduction of the language code at the bottom of every card, perhaps we no longer need scans of every card. We just need to confirm which languages exist and make a list.

We should have scans of all the promos in one language, and would only need scans of other language cards if there were something unique like alternate art in that language.

Tav
The text printing is just as important an aesthetic quality as the artwork for some, and in some cases, more important (ie. deck pimpers that use specific languages, despite the fact they cannot even read said language).

I enjoy looking at the different scans in all the languages, and if they were to stop showing up here, I'd have to start collecting them, which would cost me more money! :p

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Post by cataclysm80 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:44 pm

Of coarse, I would prefer to have everything shown, but with the limited resources of the group that may not be possible.

If we have to choose which projects to spend our time on, are we choosing the right projects? (refer to poll at top) The rarities section keeps growing while basic set info hasn't been updated in a long time.

How can we grow Librarities to a larger group and thus have more volunteers to complete such projects?

Tav

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Post by mystical_tutor » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:01 pm

berkumps wrote: I enjoy looking at the different scans in all the languages, and if they were to stop showing up here, I'd have to start collecting them, which would cost me more money! :p
i too like to see all the languages but I also would like to see the set information updated as a more important aspect of the History of the game.

The difference between eye candy and hard core information is an easy choice for me.

If you do start collecting them all please scan them and send me a copy. At such time as there is nothing else to do that contributes to the historical meat and potatoes of the game, I will be happy to start scanning again.

As for now I think I should focus on the unique additions to the board such as the Hero's path cards, league tokens, conspiracy etc.
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Post by dragsamou » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:40 pm

mystical_tutor wrote:
berkumps wrote: I enjoy looking at the different scans in all the languages, and if they were to stop showing up here, I'd have to start collecting them, which would cost me more money! :p
i too like to see all the languages but I also would like to see the set information updated as a more important aspect of the History of the game.

The difference between eye candy and hard core information is an easy choice for me.

If you do start collecting them all please scan them and send me a copy. At such time as there is nothing else to do that contributes to the historical meat and potatoes of the game, I will be happy to start scanning again.

As for now I think I should focus on the unique additions to the board such as the Hero's path cards, league tokens, conspiracy etc.
Hi Gary

I will try to update the Missing scans topic, when I can:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=4963

The Magic Card Sets can't be updated , as it needs a specific program to do so, for the moment Tim is taking care of it.
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mystical_tutor
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Post by mystical_tutor » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:52 pm

Don't get me wrong Alexis, I was just making a comparison of value of information. Not bugging anyone to do more work.

It is only my way of viewing the board. Historical data, to me, is more important here than trying to keep up with WotC as they blow us away with promos.

Having the card pictures and listings of all those printed and in what languages is the historical data. Having scans of all of them is eye candy--great to look at--but no real addition of historical information.

Just my old fart's thoughts.

Gary
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