Graded Beta Lotus $49000

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Volcanon
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Post by Volcanon » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:19 am

Cost of Beta Booster : $400
Chance it hasnt been searched : 2/100
Chance of pulling a Beta Lotus: 1/155
BGS10 Beta Lotus: Priceless

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ende73
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Post by ende73 » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:05 am

Besides, with all these cards being graded nowadays I guess that unslabbed cards will soon become rarer, so I'll just hang onto my ungraded ones ;-)

One day a P9 outside of a plastic case will become a true gem for collectors !

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ende73
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Post by ende73 » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:16 am

Volcanon wrote:Cost of Beta Booster : $400
Chance it hasnt been searched : 2/100
Chance of pulling a Beta Lotus: 1/155
BGS10 Beta Lotus: Priceless
This reasoning would be correct if there were only single "transparent" packs around.

But with Starters available at $1000 and booster boxes at $16K (but down to $13K in the recent past if I recall correctly) things change, since these are sealed and unsearched by definition.

In a booster box you have a 30% chance to pull that Lotus (the rares in the set are not 155 but 109 I believe), and you're bound to get another 2-3 Power 9, 2-3 Dual lands, possibly 1-2 BoP or Wheel of Fortune or Mind Twist or Wrath of God or Fork, about 2-3 high-end OOps (Lich, Forcefield, Cyclopean Tomb, Two-Headed Giant of Foriys, Gauntlet of Might, Time Vault, Word of Command), a couple of Berserks and Swords to Plowshares and Counterspells and Serra Angels and about 4 or 5 of each of Lightning Bolts, Sinkholes, Llanowar Elves and Dark Rituals, all in Gem Mint ;-)

Therefore $49.000 is a crazy price statistically in relation to sealed product.

Obviously this might not be true if you can pull non-BGS 9.5 or 10 cards from a pack coming out of a sealed box, as somebody mentioned.

However in my very limited experience (8-10 Beta packs opened in my life) all contents were totally Gem Mint as I pulled them out.



[/i]

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Post by timebeing » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:47 pm

ende73 wrote: Obviously this might not be true if you can pull non-BGS 9.5 or 10 cards from a pack coming out of a sealed box, as somebody mentioned.

However in my very limited experience (8-10 Beta packs opened in my life) all contents were totally Gem Mint as I pulled them out.
well don't forget centering effects mintness in the eyes of gradeing. And beta cards were not the best at that.

And thats whats wierd about MTG grading compared to sports cards. Sports cards can be very hard to pull out mint even from packs. Corners get dinked, Centering is off, the new cards are printed with so much foil on them its easy for it to flake off. Where as MTG cards are very reslient to minor damage, so almost all cards coming out pack fresh should grade 9.5-10. Will BSG grade them such? no idea.

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Post by Volcanon » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:51 am

ende73 wrote:
Volcanon wrote:Cost of Beta Booster : $400
Chance it hasnt been searched : 2/100
Chance of pulling a Beta Lotus: 1/155
BGS10 Beta Lotus: Priceless
This reasoning would be correct if there were only single "transparent" packs around.

But with Starters available at $1000 and booster boxes at $16K (but down to $13K in the recent past if I recall correctly) things change, since these are sealed and unsearched by definition.

In a booster box you have a 30% chance to pull that Lotus (the rares in the set are not 155 but 109 I believe)...[/i]

Yeah, I have no idea how many rares/cards are in the original sets. BTW the original boxes didnt have the "Wizards" shrinkwrap, so boxes could be "Re-Sealed" after being opened by a careful bugger. Starters would be a better bet, though you only get 2 rares out of them.

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Post by Xanatos » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:00 am

Bleh, beckett's just a bunch of n00bs. Their magazine's untrustworthy, so why should their grading be any better? People know and trust PSA to be a better grader.

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Moebius
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Post by Moebius » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:13 am

Xanatos wrote:Bleh, beckett's just a bunch of n00bs. Their magazine's untrustworthy, so why should their grading be any better? People know and trust PSA to be a better grader.

By making this remark I think you are the n00b. Beckett has a far better grading service then PSA. A BGS 9,5 is about the same as a PSA 10.

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Post by Xanatos » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:04 am

Moebius wrote:
Xanatos wrote:Bleh, beckett's just a bunch of n00bs. Their magazine's untrustworthy, so why should their grading be any better? People know and trust PSA to be a better grader.

By making this remark I think you are the n00b. Beckett has a far better grading service then PSA. A BGS 9,5 is about the same as a PSA 10.
no u. Seriously, PSA>>>>BGS.

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Post by Tha_Gunslinga » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:11 am

Have you seen all the error PSA cases? The ones where they mislabel the card or set? Or have you heard all the stories of pack-mint cards being sent in and coming back damaged? Pickle.69 and hispls would love to enlighten you if you haven't.

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Post by hammr7 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:15 pm

Xanatos wrote: no u. Seriously, PSA>>>>BGS.
Except for dealers (since a PSA 9 is so easy to get, and a PSA 10 is possible), the market says differently. Look at the final eBay prices on any valuable card. Becketts 9 always is more expensive than PSA 9. A Becketts 9.5 is usually as expensive or more expensive than a PSA 10. And a Becketts 10 (if you can even find one) is always more expensive than a PSA 10.

PSA gives only a single whole numbers. Becketts grades with half numbers and provides subgrades on the different card characteristics. With everything equal Becketts analysis is more detailed and more precise.

I've argued against most slabbed cards, but in my extensive sports card experiences Becketts was clearly better than PSA.

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hmm

Post by Worth » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:10 am

Something very important to remember:

Just because the card comes from the brand new unsearched unopened pack, does NOT mean its gem mint.

Quality control back then was quite bad. Cards right from packs typically come back 7-9, with most being 8's and 9's.

There is a GIGANTIC difference between a PSA (or BGS) 9 and a 10.

I think 49k is a little high, but not much. If it was an alpha I would bid myself.

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Post by Volcanon » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:15 am

In fact, sometimes I have pulled damaged cards in drafts, but it's damage that is easily faked, so I can't get $10 for them on here. :'-(

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Post by coolio » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:39 pm

Xanatos wrote:
Moebius wrote:
Xanatos wrote:Bleh, beckett's just a bunch of n00bs. Their magazine's untrustworthy, so why should their grading be any better? People know and trust PSA to be a better grader.

By making this remark I think you are the n00b. Beckett has a far better grading service then PSA. A BGS 9,5 is about the same as a PSA 10.
no u. Seriously, PSA>>>>BGS.
you know, you just clearly slapped a large large large "Moron" label on your own forehead right? This is a site of collectors.. people who are very very experienced with grading companies, grading cards themselves, and extensive knowledge on the subject. You're display of sheer idiocy has provided me with a good chuckle today, and clearly you know nothing on the subject of grading. PSA10's float around and are abundant, BGS10's are true gems and scarce. BGS grade on 4 aspects of a card, PSA doesnt give a hint on how they grade their cards, I've also known cards coming back, getting taken out of the plastic, and resent in and came back a grade higher, PSA is so biased towards their higher end membership base it's not even funny. And like 'slinga said, let's not forget the set mislabeling, card mislabeling, and other occurrances throughout the years. Last time PSA had that contest to be a grader, I would have failed, because I graded everything at least 1 grade lower than the actual "answers"

edit: Oh yes, one last thing, I've seen slabbed PSA10s with nicks visible to the eye, a cold day in hell before BGS gives anything with a visible nick anything over an 8.5/9

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Post by NightBeing » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:50 am

coolio wrote:a cold day in hell before ...
Just a nitpick, because it's one of the subjects which never stop to amuse me :) You know that both "Hell" and "inferno" originally mean freezing cold, do you? :)
The CheeseshireCat

coolio
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Post by coolio » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:12 am

NightBeing wrote:
coolio wrote:a cold day in hell before ...
Just a nitpick, because it's one of the subjects which never stop to amuse me :) You know that both "Hell" and "inferno" originally mean freezing cold, do you? :)
source?

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