Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

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lethe
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:12 am

dragsamou wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 pm
Let me know which one ones you need to be added in the Uncut sheets compilation
Hi Alexis,

Of course I like to see the sheets, but I don't think any of these are needed for my work, so no need to rush. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough video data for these older sets to do much with rares or foils. (Actually, I found the Urza's Legacy foil sheet on the fillers page and the Unglued rare sheet on another forum post, and they were quite interesting.)

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dragsamou
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by dragsamou » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:20 am

lethe wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:12 am
dragsamou wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 pm
Let me know which one ones you need to be added in the Uncut sheets compilation
Hi Alexis,

Of course I like to see the sheets, but I don't think any of these are needed for my work, so no need to rush. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough video data for these older sets to do much with rares or foils. (Actually, I found the Urza's Legacy foil sheet on the fillers page and the Unglued rare sheet on another forum post, and they were quite interesting.)
The Italian Urza's Legacy Foil sheet is not in the Fillers subsection (it's Urza's Destiny) but in the Arena League Promos (English) , and different from the Foil English Uncommon/Common sheet (it's only fillers instead of the Urza's Saga Promos on the last row):
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/1-rarit ... index.html
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lethe
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:43 am

dragsamou wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:20 am
lethe wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:12 am
dragsamou wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:33 pm
Let me know which one ones you need to be added in the Uncut sheets compilation
Hi Alexis,

Of course I like to see the sheets, but I don't think any of these are needed for my work, so no need to rush. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough video data for these older sets to do much with rares or foils. (Actually, I found the Urza's Legacy foil sheet on the fillers page and the Unglued rare sheet on another forum post, and they were quite interesting.)
The Italian Urza's Legacy Foil sheet is not in the Fillers subsection (it's Urza's Destiny) but in the Arena League Promos (English) , and different from the Foil English Uncommon/Common sheet (it's only fillers instead of the Urza's Saga Promos on the last row):
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/1-rarit ... index.html
Thank you for the correction.

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mmgun
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by mmgun » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:18 pm

Neuron wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:15 pm
dragsamou wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:23 am

Contraptions are on their own sheet (That at least is known)
6 Commons each have four variants
1 Common has five variants
3 Uncommons each have six variants
3 rares each have six variants

Then you have the 20 tokens (Silver bordered tokens have variants for the back)
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/1158-ra ... index.html

For now, unfortunately there's no pics of Unstable sheets available.
Thanks for the link, one should also keep in mind that Steamflogger Boss was printed on the basic lands sheet.
Just to have the information all together. The 3 Rares, which have 6 variations, are printed with the mythics on the same sheet. The following cards were opened from the same box together with 2 more mythics miscut the same way.
Image

lethe
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:10 am

First post updated:
  • Updated top row of Exodus Belgian Commons (based on color).
  • Updated top rop of Urza's Saga Belgian Commons (based on color).
  • Added Urza's Destiny Belgian Common sheet.
  • Added Mercadian Masques Common and Uncommon sheets (probably shared between Belgium and USA).
  • Added Nemesis Belgian Common and Uncommon sheets.
  • Added Prophecy Belgian Common sheet.
  • Added Sixth Edition Belgian Common sheet.
  • Added Starter 1999 Common sheet.
  • Added Dominaria USA Common and Uncommon runs plus notes on rares, lands, and tokens.
  • Added Guilds of Ravnica USA Common and Uncommon runs plus notes on tokens.
  • Added Guilds of Ravnica Belgian Common runs.
  • Added Core Set 2019 USA Uncommon runs plus tap-land run plus token notes plus foil notes.
  • Added Battlebond Common and Uncommon runs plus token notes.
  • Added Ultimate Masters Common and Uncommon runs plus rare and token notes.
  • Added Unglued Uncommon notes.
  • Added Unstable Common runs, Common and Uncommon contraption runs, plus Uncommon and token notes.
  • Some rearranging and typo fixing.
Unstable discussion:

I have finished many of the print runs for unstable, and they are mostly 50 cards long. Those that aren't are shorter presumably with fillers (in cases where the math didn't work out). I didn't observe a lot of swaps, but swaps in the common A run were possibly consistent with a width-10 sheet. Common A and B are printed at the same rate, so they could be on a single 100 card sheet, and common C1 and C2 could similarly be on the same sheet. This could mean 10 by 10 sheets.

Lands go evenly into 50 as well, but that doesn't account for Steamflogger Boss. The two separate token sequences each have length 10, so they could go into 50 (or 100).

In Drive to Work #492 "Printing" (Mark Rosewater's podcast), Mark mentions that Unstable uses a technique he calls "gutter cutting" where a little bit of space is left between cards on the sheet to be discarded. This allows art that extends all the way to the edge of the card. The technique would have to be used for normal cards because Augments have art the extends all the way to the right edge plus lands and contraptions which have full art. If the sheet has the same measurements as the normal 11 by 11 sheet, then perhaps it can fit only 10 by 10 cards with space for the gutters.
mmgun wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:18 pm
Just to have the information all together. The 3 Rares, which have 6 variations, are printed with the mythics on the same sheet. The following cards were opened from the same box together with 2 more mythics miscut the same way.
Image
I haven't looked at the rares yet (it requires a lot more boxes), but this makes a lot of sense. The other cards with variations are on sheets that are printed at low rates to allow for more granularity in the rarity of particular variations. Printing normal cards on these sheets is sort of wasteful because they have to be repeated a large number of times, so it would make sense to put mythics on this rare sheet because mythics also have a lower rate (though still not as low as variations). It may not be purely mythics or it may not be all mythics depending on how the math works out, though.

jeremy
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by jeremy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:43 pm

I calculated the Ice Age lands sheet the same way. Variants A,B,C match the artwork on Gatherer

Image

Cheers!

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dragsamou
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by dragsamou » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:04 pm

jeremy wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:43 pm
I calculated the Ice Age lands sheet the same way. Variants A,B,C match the artwork on Gatherer
Cheers!
Great work. As mentioned it matches also the English Ice Age Land sheet.
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by jeremy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:26 pm

I also recreated the Ice Age sheets based on this calculated layout, and the rare sheet photo posted in another thread:

The commons were all from the same box, and I'm 99% sure they are from the same sheet based on how they came from the packs. The box used the first, apparently more common, layout of the two common sheets, which is what I reproduced. 108 of the uncommons are from the same box, but came from two sheets, with the remaining 13 cards sourced elsewhere. Rares of course from many sheets. The cards are secured from the back with an archival, no residue tape. I did test it can be removed without damage, but I have no intention of doing so.

Image

Image

Image

lethe
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:33 am

jeremy wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:26 pm
I also recreated the Ice Age sheets based on this calculated layout, and the rare sheet photo posted in another thread:
Beautiful!
first, apparently more common, layout of the two common sheets
Don't know if I ever mentioned it here, but my theory is the Gaze of Pain sheet is form earlier printings, as the pattern of card colors on the Fyndhorn Brownie sheet matches the pattern used for later sets. Fourth Edition (contemporary) also has two different common sheet layouts with the second one matching the color pattern used for later sets. For Fourth Edition, the color pattern is actually really bad in the sense that you can easily get packs that are completely missing a color (or even two colors), so I think it makes some sense that they would have felt the need to correct it. I think the Gaze of Pain sheet is not that bad though. (These are the only two sets where I've seen this kind of thing.)

Also, I forgot I never mentioned here, but I have a website now. Mostly been working on newer sets.

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BillBo
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by BillBo » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:30 am

lethe wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:33 am
[ I have a website now.
Cool, thank you! Bookmarked to peruse later.
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

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