Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

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cataclysm80
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by cataclysm80 » Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am

If you'd like to see the miscuts Jakob used as reference material, they're on Facebook.
Here's a link.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MTGmisp ... 468875825/

lethe
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:00 am

cataclysm80 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:57 am
It's nice to see someone else working on this.
I haven't devoted as much time to it as I would have liked.
Here's a quick write up of what I'd done a couple years ago.

http://forum.magiclibrarities.net/forum ... 967#p89967
I don't remember why I started working on this in the first place, but it may have been your hints about reconstructing the Alpha sheet in the "Compilation of Uncut Sheets" thread. Anyway, I don't know anything about the machinery side, but the pattern I found is the same as what you've said, although there are some unusual cases. (For example: US printings seem to work differently; sometimes in Ice Age and maybe other sets, only one card per column is taken instead of 2-5; sometimes like Legends uncommons only part of the sheet is used at a time.)

I'd love to do Arabian Nights, but I haven't been able to find that many pack openings. Maybe I should attempt it anyway to see how far I can get, but I only have 26 packs in my notes so far (although I should look again -- my search techniques have refined a bit). At the least, you need every card from every position on the sheet to reconstruct it.
cataclysm80 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:59 am
If you'd like to see the miscuts Jakob used as reference material, they're on Facebook.
Here's a link.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MTGmisp ... 468875825/
Thanks, this looks like a good source of information.

Also, unrelated, I've updated the first post, mostly with:
  • 4th Edition uncommon sheet
  • Finished US Mirage common run, note on relation between sheet edge and transpositions
  • Visions common info
  • Weatherlight common info
  • Tempest common info
  • Some notes about Portal
I plan to continue. The original intent of this thread was more focused on the sheets that could be completely reconstructed (Belgian sheets I guess), but I can continue posting US print runs as well. I also still plan to do a more comprehensive attack on the whole collation subject somewhere.

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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by dragsamou » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am

lethe wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:00 am

Also, unrelated, I've updated the first post, mostly with:
  • 4th Edition uncommon sheet
  • Finished US Mirage common run, note on relation between sheet edge and transpositions
  • Visions common info
  • Weatherlight common info
  • Tempest common info
  • Some notes about Portal
I plan to continue. The original intent of this thread was more focused on the sheets that could be completely reconstructed (Belgian sheets I guess), but I can continue posting US print runs as well. I also still plan to do a more comprehensive attack on the whole collation subject somewhere.
Hi Lethe

Great post, about Visions, you need also to take into consideration the Visions Preview cards (Made in USA) that came in specific boosters:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/145-rar ... index.html

For Portal, some of the specific English sheets 11 x 10 (Made in USA) are on Magic Rarities:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/129-rar ... index.html
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/558-rar ... index.html

I do have also pics of the Portal English sheets 11 x 10 (Made in USA), if needed:
Portal Common Sheet
Portal Uncommon Sheet
Portal Rare Sheet

For Fourth Edition, all the sheets were printed in Belgium by Carta Mundi, if needed I have pics of:
French Common Sheet
French Land Sheet
Portuguese Common Sheet
Portuguese Uncommon Sheet
Portuguese Rare Sheet
Portuguese Land Sheet
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mmgun
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by mmgun » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 pm

I see some problems with your common weatherlight sheet.

The set has 62 commons in total and there are several commons missing in your layout.

e.g
Benalish Knight
Tolarian Drake
Shattered Crypt
Mind Stone
Jangling automaton
Harvest Wurm
Bogardan Firefiend
... maybe even more

So there must be another sheet or whatever
I could not find a proof for the top row either, just some confirmations, that your rows might be correct, especially 1st and last row.

Missing knight sheetedge
Image

Front + Back printed sheet has 1st and last row on each side + connecting Merfolk Trader + Cinder Wall

Image
Image

Connecting Thunderbolt + Ardent Militia on Foreign Sheet

Image

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dragsamou
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by dragsamou » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm

mmgun wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 pm

Missing knight sheetedge
Image
This Benalish Knight can also come from the Air Forces theme deck from Weatherlight.

Problem with Foreign sheets versus English is that on a lot of Edition or Expansion, they don't follow the same pattern.

Weatherlight (June 1997) 9
Made in Belgium: English, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese, Spanish
Made in USA: Korean, Korean (Vanguard Gift Box), Traditional Chinese
Existence: English (Made in USA), English (blister pack)
Doesn't exist: Russian, Simplified Chinese
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mmgun
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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by mmgun » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:11 pm

However, for the made in belgium weatherlight sheet the japanese and english layout seems to fit.

Still, where are the missing commons ?

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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by lethe » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:22 am

dragsamou wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am
Great post, about Visions, you need also to take into consideration the Visions Preview cards (Made in USA) that came in specific boosters:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/145-rar ... index.html
Yes, the data I posted is only for normal English packs, not for preview packs. Since preview packs use a different wrapper, I can tell them apart. I'd like to see if there are any patterns, but I haven't done it yet. It may be hard, because there are fewer pack openings.
dragsamou wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am
For Portal, some of the specific English sheets 11 x 10 (Made in USA) are on Magic Rarities:
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/129-rar ... index.html
http://www.magiclibrarities.net/558-rar ... index.html
Wow, I didn't realize these were on the site, that's great! I need to spend more time looking at these, but it does seem like almost all the pack data I collected matches these sheets. Interesting because if these are the only sheets that would mean the commons and uncommons aren't all equally likely, and also that the two-color combinations are not all equally likely...

Also, the precons may be helpful, because I did see one precon opening where the Panther Warriors and Feral Shadow were swapped which could help imply that swaps happen on the edge of the sheet, but I'm still a bit worried about complications from face-up vs face-down precons.
dragsamou wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am
I do have also pics of the Portal English sheets 11 x 10 (Made in USA), if needed:
Portal Common Sheet
Portal Uncommon Sheet
Portal Rare Sheet

For Fourth Edition, all the sheets were printed in Belgium by Carta Mundi, if needed I have pics of:
French Common Sheet
French Land Sheet
Portuguese Common Sheet
Portuguese Uncommon Sheet
Portuguese Rare Sheet
Portuguese Land Sheet
I would always love to see more sheets :) The only (non-foil) US sheet I have seen so far is Mirage rare which is not good for figuring out how the swaps work. Comparing the other language Fourth Edition vs what I said the English was would also be interesting.
mmgun wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:22 pm
I see some problems with your common weatherlight sheet.

The set has 62 commons in total and there are several commons missing in your layout.

e.g
Benalish Knight
Tolarian Drake
Shattered Crypt
Mind Stone
Jangling automaton
Harvest Wurm
Bogardan Firefiend
... maybe even more

So there must be another sheet or whatever
My great apologies, I forgot to explain these cards in my writeup. These cards work the same as the 7 extra commons from Visions -- every pack contains one in a special slot between the rare and the other 10 commons from the normal sheet. So, I think it is a safe assumption that these appears on the top half of a 10 by 10 rare sheet at 7x each with one 8x (like Visions). (Since there's only one per pack, it will be very hard for me to tell the actual layout or counts conclusively.)

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Re: Calculated print sheets based on pack openings

Post by dragsamou » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:57 am

lethe wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:22 am
Yes, the data I posted is only for normal English Visions packs, not for preview packs. Since preview packs use a different wrapper, I can tell them apart. I'd like to see if there are any patterns, but I haven't done it yet. It may be hard, because there are fewer pack openings.
I have added the 3 Visions sheets
lethe wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:22 am

Wow, I didn't realize these were on the site, that's great! I need to spend more time looking at these, but it does seem like almost all the pack data I collected matches these sheets. Interesting because if these are the only sheets that would mean the commons and uncommons aren't all equally likely, and also that the two-color combinations are not all equally likely...

Also, the precons may be helpful, because I did see one precon opening where the Panther Warriors and Feral Shadow were swapped which could help imply that swaps happen on the edge of the sheet, but I'm still a bit worried about complications from face-up vs face-down precons.
I have added the 8 Portal sheets

PORTAL

215 black-bordered cards
85 Common
55 Uncommon
55 Rare
20 Lands
2 List cards
10 Strategy cards
7 Alternate text Cards (only available in the Starter 2 Player)
6 Demo Game cards (only available in the Demo Game booster)
1 Portal English Tip Card (only available in the Demo Game booster)

Therefore a Complete Portal English set is 241 cards.

PORTAL COMMON SHEET 11 x 10

Image
Portal has 85 common. On this sheet there's 55 x 2 = 110 Common cards

PORTAL UNCOMMON SHEET 11 x 10

Image
55 Uncommon x 2 = 110 Uncommon cards

PORTAL RARE SHEET 11 x 10

Image
55 Rare x 2 = 110 Rare cards

PORTAL DECK A SHEET 11 x 10

Printed by Yaquinto.

Image
Portal Alternate Text Cards are located on this sheet as well as the Portal Card List Card 1 of 2

PORTAL DECK B SHEET 11 x 10

Printed by Yaquinto.

Image
Portal Alternate Text Cards are located on this sheet as well as the Portal Card List Card 2 of 2

PORTAL STRATEGY SHEET A 11 x 10

Image
Strategy Cards are located on this sheet

PORTAL STRATEGY SHEET B 11 x 10

Image
Strategy Cards are located on this sheet

PORTAL STRATEGY SHEET C 11 x 10

Image
Strategy Cards are located on this sheet

VISIONS

167 black-bordered cards:
62 Common
55 Uncommon
50 Rare

VISIONS COMMON SHEET 11 x 10

Image
Visions has 62 common. On this sheet there's 55 x 2 =110 Common cards

VISIONS UNCOMMON SHEET 11 x 10

Image
55 Uncommon x 2 = 110 Uncommon cards

VISIONS RARE AND COMMON SHEET 10 x 10

Image
50 rare (only located from row 6 till row 10) and 50 Common (7 different ones only located from row 1 till row 5) for a total of 100 cards
Keeper of Kookus (x 7)
King Cheetah (x 7)
Man-o'-War (x 7)
Phyrexian Walker (x 7)
Resistance Fighter (x 7)
Sisay's Ring (x 8)
Urborg Mindsucker (x 7)
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