Alleged Foil Test Prints

Questions about Magic items and events.

Moderators: cataclysm80, Apocalypse2K, berkumps, dragsamou, mystical_tutor, pp, hammr7, l0qii

Post Reply
User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:40 pm

Folks:

Can anyone corroborate or otherwise shed some light on the story regarding the foil test prints offered on fb? Here's a link to the images: https://imgur.com/a/0p74OR1

Many thanks in advance!

Bernd
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

User avatar
Layalouhamesh
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: France

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by Layalouhamesh » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:23 pm

I own a bunch of them and can confirm they are pretty flat. Still I don't have the whole story about them, and while they look like some earlier foil (invasion, urza) lands I own, I don't have material for high res analysis

User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:14 am

Layalouhamesh wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:23 pm
I own a bunch of them …
Thank you, any help is appreciated!
Still I don't have the whole story about them
Can you confirm that they were test prints of sorts?
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

User avatar
Layalouhamesh
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: France

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by Layalouhamesh » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:06 am

Can you confirm that they were test prints of sorts?
Happy to help. I also want more info on them. I cannot confirm that as I got them from trustable sellers but not from the initial employee that got them (during a clean-up at factory if I'm right).

However if anybody has any recommandation on how to make additional tests (without the possibility of damaging them), I can try to find a cheap microscope or so

User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:49 pm

Layalouhamesh wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:06 am
I got them from trustable sellers but not from the initial employee that got them (during a clean-up at factory if I'm right).
Thank you, Layalouhamesh. The seller told me "the[y] were acquired from a plant employee who got them while they were transferring between facilities." But he has not yet provided the evidence he said he has.
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by dragsamou » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:05 am

BillBo wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:49 pm
Layalouhamesh wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:06 am
I got them from trustable sellers but not from the initial employee that got them (during a clean-up at factory if I'm right).
Thank you, Layalouhamesh. The seller told me "the[y] were acquired from a plant employee who got them while they were transferring between facilities." But he has not yet provided the evidence he said he has.
Hi Berndt

Odyssey was only printed in Belgium by Carta Mundi at the exception of English that was also printed in the US. While I have followed the story when they were offered at first for real cheap and while I do not own any of them, my first thought was that they weren't Test Prints (others collectors think the same) and that while It's possible that a test print could be indistinguishable from a regular card. Apparently they have an issue with how the foil is adhered to the cardstock. Sounds more like a mistake than a test print to me. I guess further investigation needs to be done. I have decided not to add those in the Test Prints subsection.

Talking with someone owning them, I will quote what was said:
From one of the buyer: I currently have 4 full sets (two of each Spanish and Portuguese) of the ODY foil test prints. The ones that lay flat even in high humidity. People have been saying it's a new adhesive there were testing (looking from prior posts on the misprint page) but I'm skeptical as an adhesive should have no bearings on the material properties of the cardboard itself. I believe they were testing a stiffer foil layer since the reason why cards curl is the weakness of the foil layer when the cardboard layer expands from water saturation from the air. This conjecture comes from experience from working in a print shop for a number of years.

The sets I'm calling complete are the complete basic set (4 of each art and all 5 basic types) from ODY. All of them are quad square corner.

These were acquired from a WotC employee originally, I am currently the second owner past the employee. The first was John Doe who purchased them from said employee.
John Doe (one of the buyer who resold them);
"I confirm that these square-cut lands were produced to test a new (and ultimately unused) foiling process at a supplier that previously hadn't manufactured foil cards. They were factory cut, and delivered to Wizards in standard white factory boxes. I picked them off the WotC free table in the old building during a production samples clearout during the move to the new building. I can confirm custody - where they came from, how they were packaged. I don't have any paperwork though."
Hope this help.
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

User avatar
Layalouhamesh
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: France

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by Layalouhamesh » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am

I confirm that these square-cut lands were produced to test a new (and ultimately unused) foiling process at a supplier that previously hadn't manufactured foil cards.
So theoretically, we should find some differences with normal cards (both issued before and after) in terms of weight or material properties, right?

Can you give information on whether the employee was working in the US factory or in Belgium?

User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:00 pm

Thx, Alexis, for chiming in — always good to have your expertise brought to the table!
dragsamou wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:05 am
Talking with someone owning them <SNIP>
What you posted is exactly what the current owner/seller told me. The name "John Doe" isn't helpful, however, since it's the American equivalent of "Monsieur Untel," i.e., not a real person's name but a placeholder. I was able to confirm from a former employee that the "free table" existed. ODY was released in 2001, WotC moved into the new building in 2005, so that part of the story seems plausible. Someone who worked in Brand or Layout around 2000-01 would probably be able to shed more light on it, but I don't know anyone who worked in that capacity.

It would be most helpful if the seller were to make good on his claim: "I can confirm custody - where they came from, how they were packaged. I don't have any paperwork though." This might also clarify whether Layalouhamesh and I are inquiring about cards from the same print run or not, for they seem to have different origins (production facility vs. WotC office building). I understand this to be also Layalouhamesh's concern when he writes:
Layalouhamesh wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am
Can you give information on whether the employee was working in the US factory or in Belgium?
Cheers, Bernd
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

User avatar
Layalouhamesh
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: France

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by Layalouhamesh » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:46 pm

With my question I was trying to determine whether the choice of language had some importance. Something like "do the special characters that appear in Portuguese and Spanish" print well?" if in US factory

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by dragsamou » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 pm

BillBo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:00 pm
Thx, Alexis, for chiming in — always good to have your expertise brought to the table!
dragsamou wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:05 am
Talking with someone owning them <SNIP>
What you posted is exactly what the current owner/seller told me. The name "John Doe" isn't helpful, however, since it's the American equivalent of "Monsieur Untel," i.e., not a real person's name but a placeholder. I was able to confirm from a former employee that the "free table" existed. ODY was released in 2001, WotC moved into the new building in 2005, so that part of the story seems plausible. Someone who worked in Brand or Layout around 2000-01 would probably be able to shed more light on it, but I don't know anyone who worked in that capacity.

It would be most helpful if the seller were to make good on his claim: "I can confirm custody - where they came from, how they were packaged. I don't have any paperwork though." This might also clarify whether Layalouhamesh and I are inquiring about cards from the same print run or not, for they seem to have different origins (production facility vs. WotC office building). I understand this to be also Layalouhamesh's concern when he writes:
Layalouhamesh wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am
Can you give information on whether the employee was working in the US factory or in Belgium?
Cheers, Bernd
The "John Doe" was used on purpose as to replace the precised name of the person who sent me a private PM, I always keep the privacy of anyone except when it's a public post. Unfortunately the very first post of the original owner was deleted. The employee who offered the card was at WotC, now where the card originated from is unknown to me, but since Carta Mundi in Belgium did all the printing for Odyssey, they must have come from another US facility and not the one that did the English Odyssey version in the US. Now, the choice of languages is strange also, why Spanish and Portuguese, if it was a Test Print, why didn't they simply used English and why only on the basic sheet. The difference should be investigate with Portuguese and Spanish basic lands only. Now, talking about Odyssey, I do remember that a lot of foils in different languages were having a problem in a way that the foil part was not adhering to the card, therefore were separated without peeling out of that situation, I do even own some, but that wasn't only affecting Odyssey.
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:08 pm

dragsamou wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 pm
Now, the choice of languages is strange also, why Spanish and Portuguese
Going out on a limb here, speculating … First, if WotC wanted to address foil curl due to humidity, then a batch released only in Middle and South America seems like a good-sized and well-suited test market. Mostly tropical climate with considerable humidity; not too big a market to create mayhem in case of failure but big enough to produce robust data. Second, most foils in common and uncommon slots don't see much (tournament) play while foil basics enjoy quite some play. So it could make sense. But who knows …
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

User avatar
dragsamou
Administrator
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 1:17 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by dragsamou » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:57 am

BillBo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:08 pm
dragsamou wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 pm
Now, the choice of languages is strange also, why Spanish and Portuguese
Going out on a limb here, speculating … First, if WotC wanted to address foil curl due to humidity, then a batch released only in Middle and South America seems like a good-sized and well-suited test market. Mostly tropical climate with considerable humidity; not too big a market to create mayhem in case of failure but big enough to produce robust data. Second, most foils in common and uncommon slots don't see much (tournament) play while foil basics enjoy quite some play. So it could make sense. But who knows …
All right, I have retrieved the info about them from the original owner (WotC employee) from the original post, there's around 20 of them for each illustrations, there's 20 Basic Lands for Odyssey, meaning around 400 for Portuguese and 400 for Spanish (that fits 8 Basic Land Odyssey sheets). Then that:

They came as a few sheets worth of PT and SP lands in a factory tray. I do know they're factory slit. I'm also 99% sure that I have every single one of these that exists. What I can't figure out is why they exist. I'm tempted to dissect one to see if there's any evidence of them being a test print of some kind.

Meaning that from the very beginning, while they came from WotC, never any evidence was proven that they were some Test Prints of any kind, beside that the words "Test Print" were used in that sentence. I have no idea where the extra info (from one of the buyer) came from after that.
Want/Have Lists.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8903
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1515
I Love you Dad.R.I.P.

User avatar
BillBo
Legendary Land Lord
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:12 am
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: Alleged Foil Test Prints

Post by BillBo » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:21 pm

dragsamou wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:57 am
All right, I have retrieved the info about them from the original owner (WotC employee) … <SNIP>
Well, that settles almost all questions. Thank you, Alexis!

What I see as the main open question is whether they were printed in Belgium and belong to the same batch Layalouhamesh has cards from.

Cheers, Bernd
I collect land cards, just that.
My want list: http://www.magiclibrarities.net/forum/v ... php?t=9128

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests